Understanding God’s election
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Wow! I thought man was strictly under the control of his own "free" will. But now discover that he's under the control of sin! I'm going to have to run out to beg, borrow, steal, rent or buy a free will. 
You know what this really is? Another invention of your own making. I've never seen anyone say this never mind the "label" you put on it. Please show me where the person saying or teaching this is.
"all men are condemned before they were ever born. Except for them!"
where on earth is anyone is saying this? I believe that outside of your accusation it doesn't exist.
No body is saying this, why do you make this stuff up? You seem to be fighting an imaginary enemy and it's very strange to me. Why? Do you even know? Who are you saying teaches this? It's just so disconnected.
"all men are condemned before they were ever born. Except for them!"
where on earth is anyone is saying this? I believe that outside of your accusation it doesn't exist.
No body is saying this, why do you make this stuff up? You seem to be fighting an imaginary enemy and it's very strange to me. Why? Do you even know? Who are you saying teaches this? It's just so disconnected.
It happened in the garden of Eden when Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
this happened then
“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
Genesis 3:22, 24
a fact which God knew ahead of time that they were going to do, as Jesus had already been purposed to pay the sin debt of the world.
They lost God's covering when they disobeyed to sit themselves on the throne,
and all of creation was affected/corrupted/subjected to futility. I wonder how many times I have asked others directly in a post to them or otherwise, meaning just an open question to the board, how many think Adam was bound to sin eventually because he was of the natural world? I don't think anyone has ever answered. And good morning!
this happened then
“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
Genesis 3:22, 24
a fact which God knew ahead of time that they were going to do, as Jesus had already been purposed to pay the sin debt of the world.
They lost God's covering when they disobeyed to sit themselves on the throne,
and all of creation was affected/corrupted/subjected to futility. I wonder how many times I have asked others directly in a post to them or otherwise, meaning just an open question to the board, how many think Adam was bound to sin eventually because he was of the natural world? I don't think anyone has ever answered. And good morning!
“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
whether of sin unto death, ( option 1)
or of obedience unto righteousness?”( option 2)
Romans 6:16 KJV
I believe Adam chose wrong and I believe cain also chose wrong
“Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? ( option one )
But if you do not do what is right, ( option 2 and it’s consewuence ) sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.””
Genesis 4:6-7 NIV
cain made his choice and killed his brother who the bible says works we’re righteous there’s fire he wasn’t wicked hopelessly either.
Enoch wasn’t incapable he walked with God and was translated . Noah wasn’t incapable God spoke to him and he believed and built the ark as commanded and was saved , Abraham wasn’t incapable he believed God and was counted as righteous . Job wasn’t incapable he was a good and perfect man who lover righteousness and askewed evil . Daniel wasn’t incapable he withstood every chance to turn from God but he was a righteous man who could deliver his own soul with his righteousness just as job and Noah both receive witness from God
Shadrach meshach and abendego weren’t incapable they refused to bow and worship an idol when facing a certain death sentance even being thrown into a blazing furnace tbey stood strong in faith and God delivered them all
men have always been capable but for a very long time now unwilling to serve God
and one is condemned by adams sin we’re condemned by our own sins adam only brought the knowledge of good and evil to us now like cain we’re struggling between good and evil Gods voice and satans we have to choose God or we’ll never be free we can and must not not if we reject the truth
They will not listen or even try to see things from another point of view. They accuse others of being Calvinist scum for believing in the elect, while they look down their noses at us (none of who have ever claimed to be a Calvinist btw) as if they're elites, making up nonsense that nobody says, to attack that invention like they're fighting for truth. It's madness, and it's nonstop. I'm at a loss on how to even interact with this or if it's even worth it.
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I see a lot of talk of people not having a choice. Where does this come from?
I think from folks who agree with your opinion about it probably . Where does the bi ke say no one has a choice ? I can and have shown it saying “this is your choice , choose…..
where does it say “ you don’t have a choice and can’t choose ?”
I think from folks who agree with your opinion about it probably . Where does the bi ke say no one has a choice ? I can and have shown it saying “this is your choice , choose…..
where does it say “ you don’t have a choice and can’t choose ?”
Yet a person will sin because their flesh/sinful nature produces cravings, desires, and thoughts that lead to sin. Also I never said anyone was born a servant to sin. But they are born of the flesh in need of a spiritual rebirth which I still cannot quite wrap my mind around you saying is not a real event. Born of the flesh they will sin. There are none righteous.
I'm right there with you.
I'm right there with you.
Well, that is a gross misrepresentation because I have NEVER said nobody has a choice.
In FACT I say people do have a choice. I have probably said it to you and said it multiple times elsewhere all over the place also.
But people are too dim to make a distinction between having a choice and what they like to call free will.
In FACT I say people do have a choice. I have probably said it to you and said it multiple times elsewhere all over the place also.
But people are too dim to make a distinction between having a choice and what they like to call free will.
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But they are born of the flesh in need of a spiritual rebirth which I still cannot quite wrap my mind around you saying is not a real event.
probably becaue I’ve never in my life said such a thing I wouldn’t be able to wrap my mind around me saying it either . Having trouble wrapping my mind around that characterization of anything I’ve said ever in my life …..
probably becaue I’ve never in my life said such a thing I wouldn’t be able to wrap my mind around me saying it either . Having trouble wrapping my mind around that characterization of anything I’ve said ever in my life …..
That's all they talk about is how bad Calvinist are, and you're right there with them buddy, even though I find you the most easy to talk to, you still only fight an imaginary fight that has nothing at all to do with what the other person says. Your more polite and thinking, but you're in the same lala land disconnected from reality. .
Well I do not see it as a mere concept, you may as well have said it's not real for what you have said here.
Honestly you say so often, we need to believe what Scripture says. Then you don't.
All the verses about the natural man you sweep away and say well you just don't talk about that guy.
Well, why not? Much of the Bible is about him and it he is the guy who is the slave to sin that gets spoken of by others.
But you mix him up with the saved man and speak of each as if they are the same.
No wonder you are so confused. And others applaud your confusion.
Honestly you say so often, we need to believe what Scripture says. Then you don't.
All the verses about the natural man you sweep away and say well you just don't talk about that guy.
Well, why not? Much of the Bible is about him and it he is the guy who is the slave to sin that gets spoken of by others.
But you mix him up with the saved man and speak of each as if they are the same.
No wonder you are so confused. And others applaud your confusion.
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Yeah he gets the glory for what he did in the gospel
“I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
John 17:4-5 KJV
our part is to accept and believe the gospel and be saved
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
This part “but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Is not Gods fault they can believe also but when they hear the gospel they don’t want what it offers so they choose other things condemning thier own self
Its like you guys believe the gospel isn’t enough to save a sinner but that’s the only thing that can save a sinner any sinner who repents and believes
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
Romans 1:16-17 KJV
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
that’s why the gospel has to be preached so sinners can believe it and turn back to God were in rebellion
“I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
John 17:4-5 KJV
our part is to accept and believe the gospel and be saved
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
This part “but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Is not Gods fault they can believe also but when they hear the gospel they don’t want what it offers so they choose other things condemning thier own self
Its like you guys believe the gospel isn’t enough to save a sinner but that’s the only thing that can save a sinner any sinner who repents and believes
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
Romans 1:16-17 KJV
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
that’s why the gospel has to be preached so sinners can believe it and turn back to God were in rebellion
What better way to destroy the faith than by infiltrating the seminaries and then sending them out like wolves to tend to the sheep.
Then the wolves feed the congregants a doctrine that captures their hearts and minds to the point where they barely can perceive the truth of the scripture anymore because it NOT God honoring at all .......more like a pagan god who demands who cannot be appeased to the point where babies are sent to their doom.
Then the wolves feed the congregants a doctrine that captures their hearts and minds to the point where they barely can perceive the truth of the scripture anymore because it NOT God honoring at all .......more like a pagan god who demands who cannot be appeased to the point where babies are sent to their doom.
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Oh what? does it upset you that she said that you held a belief that you don't hold? Does that bother you? Because that is all you do here, I've pointed this out to you more than once this week. So you get to make up what we believe, but it's a problem if someone tells you what you believe? How does that make sense?