Understanding God’s election

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,096
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If it is true that He who begins a good work in us will continue that work in us until the day of Jesus Christ as
Philippians 1:6 says, it must be God and not me who ensures my perseverance. If that is indeed the case as I
believe it is, all those verses you shared must be reconciled to this under. And you still do not understand faith.

Philippians 1:6
It makes sense that those who believe they began the good work in themselves also believe it can be lost.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
3,355
520
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There were believers who resented and hated Paul.

Some even gave him the nickname, "The Abortion."

Paul referred to himself that way in The Greek of 1 Corinthians 15:8.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
3,355
520
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Try to follow the bouncing ball...
Christ is the firstborn of many brethren. He is the first of His kind. The new creation is in Him, as those who are in Adam are part of the old creation.
Perhaps consider what that infers of the new heaven and new earth.
"Firstborn" was a Jewish term, meaning the head over all the household in proxy of the father!
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
3,355
520
113

If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—
should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret.
If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet
in the church and speak to himself and to God.
1 Corinthians 14:27-28​
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,041
6,863
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62
If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—
should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret.
If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet
in the church and speak to himself and to God.
1 Corinthians 14:27-28​
mstektytyat
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,978
397
83
Calvinists can be ferocious.

Calvin himself approved of the execution of heretics.

The heretics are one of the enemies of true Christianity and they are to be loved, not executed.
And...welcomed and invited into our homes, too (2Jn 10-11). :rolleyes:
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,375
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Agree, one of many disconnects.
The word, "love", is mostly missing in the Institutes of the Christian Religion.

I wonder why that one word, "love", an extremely important word in the New Testament.

John mentions, "love", 39 times in just one gospel.

Is mentioned just two times in the volumes of the Institutes of the Christian Religion?

Is that evidence of anything?

Could that be a problem in discipleship?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,375
1,002
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There were believers who resented and hated Paul.

Some even gave him the nickname, "The Abortion."

Paul referred to himself that way in The Greek of 1 Corinthians 15:8.
Believers or Jews?

I know the Jews were the enemy of Christianity and were in pursuit of Paul.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,096
30,223
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So...some or many or most sinners are good? Got chapter and verse for that nonsense?
Aren't they all good according to those who oppose Bible truth?

Jesus said God alone is good. Hmmm. I guess they don't believe Him either, and must twist what He said.

Man is not that bad, after all, we have been told. He certainly is not the person Scripture makes him out to be.

However, I do believe what the Bible says on the matter. I have said it again and again.

Again and again it gets denied by all the nay-sayers.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,733
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"Firstborn" was a Jewish term, meaning the head over all the household in proxy of the father!
Correct.

But what is more, it also indicates the head of the household in terms of PRIESTLY RESPONSIBILITY.
Here God is saying that Israel is his nation of PRIESTS to the world.
And His plan of salvation WILL come to pass thru them.

[Exo 4:22 KJV]
And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel [is] my son, [even] my firstborn:

[Exo 4:23 KJV]
And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, [even] thy firstborn.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,740
441
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I excluded 6 and 21 to balance your error. Why would I need to quote what you already quoted?

The saints will ultimately persevere in the faith and "keep" themselves because that is God's will for their lives. As Jesus said, it is God's will that he lose NONE of those that the Father has given to him (Jn 6:38:40). Can you not understand what "none" means? Is God's arm too short to save? Or too weak to save? Or the Good Shepherd was negligent in his ministry, perhaps? He allows sheep to escape from his flock and doesn't go after them to bring them back? Some "savior" you have. Weak, impotent, negligent, irresponsible...and a LIAR! You can keep your version of "savior". No pun intended.

And why are you too lazy to look up my cites?
Re Jude, you say, "The saints will ultimately persevere in the faith and "keep" themselves because that is God's will for their lives." If God were going to keep them against their will, there would be no need for Jude to say anything.

Can you not understand that if you delete volition from the POS it becomes a farce and makes God hateful toward those He does not elect to keep?

Re "And why are you too lazy to look up my cites?": I quoted my cites, so you can quote yours, but if you are too lazy, let me know and I will be happy to oblige. :^)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,096
30,223
113

Romans 8-9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

:)
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,978
397
83
Aren't they all good according to those who oppose Bible truth?

Jesus said God alone is good. Hmmm. I guess they don't believe Him either, and must twist what He said.

Man is not that bad, after all, we have been told. He certainly is not the person Scripture makes him out to be.

However, I do believe what the Bible says on the matter. I have said it again and again.

Again and again it gets denied by all the nay-sayers.
Remember PT who participated in many of these threads? Did he ever come up with a diabolically clever interpretation of Mk 10:18! :rolleyes:
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,733
8,603
113
The word, "love", is mostly missing in the Institutes of the Christian Religion.

I wonder why that one word, "love", an extremely important word in the New Testament.

John mentions, "love", 39 times in just one gospel.

Is mentioned just two times in the volumes of the Institutes of the Christian Religion?

Is that evidence of anything?

Could that be a problem in discipleship?
I am waiting for the Calvinites to say "love" even ONCE when they reference the people they consider "non-chosenites".
All they ever do is call them evil, reprobate, wicked and condemn them to hellfire.

Like its a joke.
Truly frightening and disturbing.
 

Cranberry

Active member
Dec 7, 2024
122
41
28
There is a reason for that taking place before our very eyes.

Paul warned about it.....

2 Timothy 4:3 says,

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear"

When the flesh yet controls a believer's life, he will seek out something that sounds Scriptural
while keeping his own fleshly- self confidence alive... For he seeks to please the Lord in the
energy of his flesh.

grace and peace ..................
A valid observation. I agree. Thank you for the scriptures of Apostle Paul.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,978
397
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Re Jude, you say, "The saints will ultimately persevere in the faith and "keep" themselves because that is God's will for their lives." If God were going to keep them against their will, there would be no need for Jude to say anything.

Can you not understand that if you delete volition from the POS it becomes a farce and makes God hateful toward those He does not elect to keep?

Re "And why are you too lazy to look up my cites?": I quoted my cites, so you can quote yours, but if you are too lazy, let me know and I will be happy to oblige. :^)
Did I say that God would keep them against their will?

But since you deny God is keeping his saints, then give me you interpretation of Jude 1 and 24.

No, an enslaved, in bondage will that is prisoner to its own evil nature does not make salvation a farce, nor does it make God hateful toward those he does not elect to keep. Salvation isn't a farce because the slaves/prisoners are utterly powerless and in need of rescue by God. And God is not hateful toward the non-elect by passing over them; rather, he is giving them what they want and deserve thereby giving them JUSTICE (not to be confused with Mercy).