Understanding God’s election
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Jesus laid aside His human will to do the will of the Father, out of His great and everlasting love for us.
Some think the natural man can do that with no help from God. They post verse after verse saying God
delivered someone or another but when it comes to themselves they say their will is what saved them.
Then they cite the power of the gospel for those who believe as if the gospel message being heard as
foolishness has the same effect on those who do not believe. Really quite puzzling that they miss the clues.
Scripture teaches what they do not: not by our desire (as Scripture plainly says) or by our effort (as Scripture
plainly says) or by our will (as Scripture plainly says) but by the desire and will of God (as Scripture plainly says).
Some think the natural man can do that with no help from God. They post verse after verse saying God
delivered someone or another but when it comes to themselves they say their will is what saved them.
Then they cite the power of the gospel for those who believe as if the gospel message being heard as
foolishness has the same effect on those who do not believe. Really quite puzzling that they miss the clues.
Scripture teaches what they do not: not by our desire (as Scripture plainly says) or by our effort (as Scripture
plainly says) or by our will (as Scripture plainly says) but by the desire and will of God (as Scripture plainly says).
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They believe people in love with darkness will choose light. It is really quite sad how little understanding
they bring to the table concerning the differences between the person with an uncircumcised heart and
the person with a circumcised heart, or as Scripture calls them also, the natural man and the spiritual man.
They actually applaud overlooking the difference almost completely, if not absolutely, since they ascribe
to the the former what only the latter can do.
they bring to the table concerning the differences between the person with an uncircumcised heart and
the person with a circumcised heart, or as Scripture calls them also, the natural man and the spiritual man.
They actually applaud overlooking the difference almost completely, if not absolutely, since they ascribe
to the the former what only the latter can do.
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Scripture does not support your view anywhere.
You may as well tell us you raised yourself from death while you were dead.
It's what you teach amounts to.
Ephesians 2:1-3 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.
Ephesians 2:4-7 ~ Because of His great love for us, God, Who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
You may as well tell us you raised yourself from death while you were dead.
It's what you teach amounts to.
Ephesians 2:1-3 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.
Ephesians 2:4-7 ~ Because of His great love for us, God, Who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
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If it requires illumination, and the Spirit is doing the illumination, God is already at work before faith is evidenced. And if everyone who doesn't believe thinks the gospel is foolishness, then those who do come to believe must first have been unenlightened or they would have already believed.
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Of course you say is impossible. You ALWAYS say it's impossible.
For everyone that was not chosen to salvation before they were ever born.
Right? I mean that's what you actually believe right?
Which is everybody but special you and a few of your special homies.
And your group is the only one with " super special spiritual abilities" to actually comprehend the Gospel message to begin with.. And the innate ability (that you miraculously obtained before you were never born) to read the Bible with any sort of comprehension at all.
For everyone that was not chosen to salvation before they were ever born.
Right? I mean that's what you actually believe right?
Which is everybody but special you and a few of your special homies.
And your group is the only one with " super special spiritual abilities" to actually comprehend the Gospel message to begin with.. And the innate ability (that you miraculously obtained before you were never born) to read the Bible with any sort of comprehension at all.
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You said they have no free will, implying God will keep them in hell against their will.
My interpretation of Jude 1 is that the angels were free to fall from grace.
My interpretation of Jude 24 is that believers are free to do what the angels did.
Re Lk 22:31-32, Jesus prays that Simon's faith may not fail, but it did--three times.
Jn 6:35-40, Jesus says that he is the bread of life, and whoever believes in him will never go hungry, but still some did not believe, although God's will is that everyone who believes in the Son shall have eternal life--just as Paul says in 1TM 2:3-4.
JN 14:15-18&26, Jesus promises to send the Holy Spirit of truth to indwell his disciples and teach them all things (the didache).
JN 17:6-12, Jesus says that the disciples have obeyed GW and know Jesus speaks GW and knew with certainty and believed that God sent Jesus, and he prayed that they may be one, noting that Judas was lost in order to fulfill Scripture (cf. 6:70 & 13:18, referring to PS 41:9).
JN 18:9, Jesus refers again to not losing a disciple, presumably meaning except for Judas.
Rom 14:4&10, Paul says not to judge a servant of Jesus, who is able to make them stand before God's judgment.
1Cor 1:8, 10:12 & 15:58, Paul says that Jesus will keep the Corinthian believers firm to the end, warns them that if they think they are standing firm to be careful that they don't fall and therefore, stand firm, letting nothing move them from the work of the Lord.
2Cor 1:20-24, Paul says that God makes us stand firm in Christ and anointed our hearts with the HS as a seal and deposit; it is by faith that we stand firm.
Php 1:6, Paul is confident that God will continue to work in the Philippians until the day of CJ.
Eph 1:13-14, Paul says that when the Ephesians believed the gospel that they received the HS as a seal and deposit.
2Tim 4:18, Paul says the Lord will rescue him from evil attacks and bring him safely to his heavenly kingdom.
Heb 7:22-25, The writer says that Jesus is the guarantor of a better covenant, has a permanent priesthood and is able to save those who come to God through him.
1Pet 1:5, Peter says God has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of JC of an inheritance in heaven.
I will not bother with the OT verses at this time (Ps 31:23; 32:7; 37:23-24, 28; 40:11, 17; 97:10; 121:7-8; Prov 2:8).
In all of those Scriptures I see none saying that God forces some people to believe and others not to believe, but rather that God has elected to save everyone who perseveres in faith in Christ. I do see that some verses employ the verb "make" that can be interpreted as forcing, but may also be interpreted as providing a way that the believer must choose to cooperate with--thus not making (pun intended) God responsible for their sin and condemnation.
My interpretation of Jude 1 is that the angels were free to fall from grace.
My interpretation of Jude 24 is that believers are free to do what the angels did.
Re Lk 22:31-32, Jesus prays that Simon's faith may not fail, but it did--three times.
Jn 6:35-40, Jesus says that he is the bread of life, and whoever believes in him will never go hungry, but still some did not believe, although God's will is that everyone who believes in the Son shall have eternal life--just as Paul says in 1TM 2:3-4.
JN 14:15-18&26, Jesus promises to send the Holy Spirit of truth to indwell his disciples and teach them all things (the didache).
JN 17:6-12, Jesus says that the disciples have obeyed GW and know Jesus speaks GW and knew with certainty and believed that God sent Jesus, and he prayed that they may be one, noting that Judas was lost in order to fulfill Scripture (cf. 6:70 & 13:18, referring to PS 41:9).
JN 18:9, Jesus refers again to not losing a disciple, presumably meaning except for Judas.
Rom 14:4&10, Paul says not to judge a servant of Jesus, who is able to make them stand before God's judgment.
1Cor 1:8, 10:12 & 15:58, Paul says that Jesus will keep the Corinthian believers firm to the end, warns them that if they think they are standing firm to be careful that they don't fall and therefore, stand firm, letting nothing move them from the work of the Lord.
2Cor 1:20-24, Paul says that God makes us stand firm in Christ and anointed our hearts with the HS as a seal and deposit; it is by faith that we stand firm.
Php 1:6, Paul is confident that God will continue to work in the Philippians until the day of CJ.
Eph 1:13-14, Paul says that when the Ephesians believed the gospel that they received the HS as a seal and deposit.
2Tim 4:18, Paul says the Lord will rescue him from evil attacks and bring him safely to his heavenly kingdom.
Heb 7:22-25, The writer says that Jesus is the guarantor of a better covenant, has a permanent priesthood and is able to save those who come to God through him.
1Pet 1:5, Peter says God has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of JC of an inheritance in heaven.
I will not bother with the OT verses at this time (Ps 31:23; 32:7; 37:23-24, 28; 40:11, 17; 97:10; 121:7-8; Prov 2:8).
In all of those Scriptures I see none saying that God forces some people to believe and others not to believe, but rather that God has elected to save everyone who perseveres in faith in Christ. I do see that some verses employ the verb "make" that can be interpreted as forcing, but may also be interpreted as providing a way that the believer must choose to cooperate with--thus not making (pun intended) God responsible for their sin and condemnation.