Understanding God’s election

[keepingthingsreal]

They use scripture that apply to believers >>>> those who have stepped out in faith and trusted God as though it supports God it supports their personal selection.

Why do Calvinists believe in "personal selection?" When you remove all of the smoke and mirrors, the answer is simply this:

PRIDE.

In other words, God "selected" me, but he did not "select" you.

Scripture tells us that God is no respecter of persons. In Adam all die, and in Christ all can be made alive. It truly is that simple (for those who have not been brainwashed into believing otherwise).

 

[HeIsHere]

That of course Jesus suffering and sacrifice offers us who do choose to accept the gift of life offered freely to all by the lord

It is offered freely and yes people willingly can and do believe.

I am so tired of reading posts that "man cannot willingly believe" it has to be the absolute worst lie ever foisted on Christianity.

What I cannot figure out is why promulgating this lie is so important ... you have posted so many scriptures and defended the true process of salvation I just cannot understand how anyone is unconvinced.

 

[GWH]

Mat 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Does it get any plainer than this?

Here, Jesus contrasted what had long been his will with the will of the people who had rejected, and still were rejecting, his will for their lives. In other words, Jesus had long been seeking to gather the Jews unto himself, and they had long refused to be truly gathered unto him. Prior to his incarnation, he repeatedly strove with them via his prophets who had the Spirit of Christ in them (1 Peter 1:11), and he was here still striving with them, but now in person. To deny this truth is to deny many hundreds of years of biblical history, yet many people on this thread are perfectly willing to do the same.

Stephen, before he was stoned to death, gave the same account of many hundreds of years of Jewish history.

Act 7:51
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Act 7:52
Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Act 7:53
Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

As their forefathers before them had done, the Jews of Jesus' and Stephen's day were always resisting the Holy Ghost.

What do the Calvinists draw from this?

GOD'S GRACE IS IRRESISTIBLE!

Methinks that they need a lot of help.

Yes, and they don't realize that this perversion began with Augustine of Hippo in Africa about 400 A.D. The Judaizers of Paul's day reverted to the extreme we call legalism, and the Augustinians perverted to the opposite extreme (is that what hyper grace refers to?) of what we call TULIP Calvinism.

 

[cv5]

So, so true. When you post these insights I realize even more how far off the mark Calvinism is.

Good. Just doing my job Mame.
The thing is....realizing the gravity of the errors of the Calvinites, my conscient tells me that I have no other choice than to part ways from them while exposing their heresies.

The weepy cuddlers around here who want to give the Calvinites a hug may not like this attitude, but what other options are there?
And I am not willing to meet them halfway as so many of the board referees (yes that's you @Jimbone ) would like impose upon me.

 

[HeIsHere]

Why do Calvinists believe in "personal selection?" When you remove all of the smoke and mirrors, the answer is simply this:

PRIDE.

In other words, God "selected" me, but he did not "select" you.

Scripture tells us that God is no respecter of persons. In Adam all die, and in Christ all can be made alive. It truly is that simple (for those who have not been brainwashed into believing otherwise).

You are very knowledgeable so you probably know this, but they have ill-defined "dead" and from this all their false ideas flow.

The more one engages this doctrine, the more one sees how poorly scripture is exegeted and it is well known about this doctrine using cherry picked proof texts.

I mean how many times does Jesus state believe in me, why would he say those words if a person could not do it.
Baffling really.

 

[cv5]

Mat 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Does it get any plainer than this?

Here, Jesus contrasted what had long been his will with the will of the people who had rejected, and still were rejecting, his will for their lives. In other words, Jesus had long been seeking to gather the Jews unto himself, and they had long refused to be truly gathered unto him. Prior to his incarnation, he repeatedly strove with them via his prophets who had the Spirit of Christ in them (1 Peter 1:11), and he was here still striving with them, but now in person. To deny this truth is to deny many hundreds of years of biblical history, yet many people on this thread are perfectly willing to do the same.

Stephen, before he was stoned to death, gave the same account of many hundreds of years of Jewish history.

Act 7:51
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Act 7:52
Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Act 7:53
Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

As their forefathers before them had done, the Jews of Jesus' and Stephen's day were always resisting the Holy Ghost.

What do the Calvinists draw from this?

GOD'S GRACE IS IRRESISTIBLE!

Methinks that they need a lot of help.

You are on the right track. Good for you!

 

[cv5]

Why do Calvinists believe in "personal selection?" When you remove all of the smoke and mirrors, the answer is simply this:

PRIDE.

In other words, God "selected" me, but he did not "select" you.

Scripture tells us that God is no respecter of persons. In Adam all die, and in Christ all can be made alive. It truly is that simple (for those who have not been brainwashed into believing otherwise).

And then there is the Calvinite GATEKEEPER mentality.

NOBODY (ELSE!) gets in unless I say so.

They love it, they want it, and they won't give it up.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

It is offered freely and yes people willingly can and do believe.

I have only read a couple of pages of comments from other posters here because I was sickened by a lot of what I read. I did see a post where someone rightfully likened Christ's call to that a Bridegroom proposing to his prospective Bride. In Ephesians chapter 5, the Apostle Paul likens Christ's relationship with his church to that of a husband and wife, so let's run with this analogy for just a moment.

Calvin's "god" does not propose marriage. Instead, he forcibly obtains his bride, without her consent, but the madness does not end there. No, his "god" also forcibly places his seed within her (the Holy Spirit, by way of analogy), and then he forcibly restrains her in that she can never willingly depart from him.

I do not wish evil upon anybody, but imagine if some guy tried this with the daughter of a Calvinist. In other words, imagine some guy forcibly abducted their daughter, forcibly raped her, and then held her captive against her will. Would they consider this a proper marriage? If they would, then they would be nuts...yet this is precisely the type of "god" which they seek to foist upon us.

They need a lot of help. Me? Personally, I REPUDIATE their "god."

 

[HeIsHere]

Good. Just doing my job Mame.
The thing is....realizing the gravity of the errors of the Calvinites, my conscient tells me that I have no other choice than to part ways from them while exposing their heresies.

The weepy cuddlers around here who want to give the Calvinites a hug may not like this attitude, but what other options are there?
And I am not willing to meet them halfway as so many of the board referees (yes that's you @Jimbone ) would like impose upon me.

I am impressed by how uniformly similarly they behave "you misrepresent Calvinism or my words" when actually we are revealing what it really is at its core.
It is not appreciated, they do not the light shone on this non-scriptural, unreasonable and illogical doctrines.

 

[Cameron143]

Re eternal life: Yes, although not as fully understood as in the NT--like several other doctrines.

Re the difference: choice refers to options, such as the options mentioned in DT 30:19, and free will refers to the ability to choose either one of those options. In NT terms, the choice begins with seeking God/salvation or not, (MT 7:7), and free will refers to faith or opting to seek and accept God's offer of grace when found--which is why we can say that atheists have faith in no God or I-dolatry when they reject God's Gospel and thus are justly condemned.

The reason I ask is because if you believe that eternal life was in view, then you must believe that salvation for the Jews was possible through the keeping of the law, and not through faith. Is this so?

I'm glad you made the distinction between choices and freewill. As I understand freewill, it is the ability to make EVERY available choice, free of any constraints. Is this a satisfactory definition for you?

 

[Magenta]

I am so tired of reading posts that "man cannot willingly believe" it has to be the absolute worst lie ever foisted on Christianity.

Yes, I get it, you are sick of how you misrepresent what you fail to understand, but you are too invested in your
false doctrine that you cannot even see that what you are really sick of is your own lack of understanding.

I am impressed by how uniformly similarly they behave "you misrepresent Calvinism or my words" when actually we are revealing what it really is at its core. It is not appreciated, they do not the light shone on this non-scriptural, unreasonable and illogical doctrines.

The free will doctrine somebody made up and you guys cling to like some kind of imaginary life raft is seen the same way by those who believe what the Bible has to say of the natural man. You seem to have zero understanding of that guy, especially when you ascribe to him things which Scripture actually says are not possible. And despite the fact that the Bible has a lot to say about him, you think it best not to incorporate any of that into your thinking. Your confusion is highlighted even more because you only ever talk about "inability" in relation to Calvin when Arminius also taught it, and so does Molinism.

 

[Cameron143]

Why do Calvinists believe in "personal selection?" When you remove all of the smoke and mirrors, the answer is simply this:

PRIDE.

In other words, God "selected" me, but he did not "select" you.

Scripture tells us that God is no respecter of persons. In Adam all die, and in Christ all can be made alive. It truly is that simple (for those who have not been brainwashed into believing otherwise).

Careful. Calvinists believe in election; not selection. Do you know the difference?

 

[keepingthingsreal]

As I understand freewill, it is the ability to make EVERY available choice, free of any constraints. Is this a satisfactory definition for you?

Finally.

Based upon your understanding of free will, do you believe that men freely and willingly choose to accept or reject God's gracious offer of salvation, or do you believe that God somehow predetermines who will be saved apart from the freewill choices of men? I am just trying to figure out what you actually believe. Thank you.

 

[HeIsHere]

They need a lot of help. Me? Personally, I REPUDIATE their "god."

Yes that is the point we have been trying to help them see.

I think what I have found to be very disturbing is the fact that they cannot preach personal Gospel because that would entail a person believing which the person cannot do, so they preach "Christ Jesus and Lord and Saviour" and then God finds His preselected "Bride"
and though they have no willingness to believe God regenerates them and then they can believe.

This means that God regenerates/sanctifies/gives life prior to the removal of sin.
It is all very backwards.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Careful. Calvinists believe in election; not selection. Do you know the difference?

The type of "election" which Calvinists believe in is not the type of "election" that the Bible actually teaches. Do you know the difference?

 

[HeIsHere]

PRIDE.

or false humility!

 

[Magenta]

I am impressed by how uniformly similarly they behave

It's funny you should say this because it had just recently occurred to me how hive mind y'all are about your false free will doctrine!

And how easily, wilfully, and gleefully so many of you lie about those you disagree with.

 

[HeIsHere]

Clinging to false doctrine concerning the nature of God, which impugns His righteousness, also hardens a believer's heart....

Another so true!

 

[Cameron143]

Finally.

Based upon your understanding of free will, do you believe that men freely and willingly choose to accept or reject God's gracious offer of salvation, or do you believe that God somehow predetermines who will be saved apart from the freewill choices of men? I am just trying to figure out what you actually believe. Thank you.

I believe both. God both elects, and in His coming to an individual woos them to be His bride.

 

[Cameron143]

The type of "election" which Calvinists believe in is not the type of "election" that the Bible actually teaches. Do you know the difference?

Feel free to explain it to me.