Understanding God’s election

[Genez]

It's not the people who are elect it's the plan. Read it again God has predestined that those who get saved will be conformed to the image of His Son. When the elect are mentioned it's a group that you join of free will that is Holy. Elect pretty much means you're set aside. But the plan of salvation and transformation were chosen by God the Father. I thank God for free will salvation because they would any God put people in hell that he never offered salvation if he let some be saved from sin. Seek out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

And, look again, again. These chosen? Were specifically chosen in Him. (Eph 1:4)

Where was Adam's bride, Eve, hidden before she was revealed?
She was in Adam’s side!

And, where are we (his bride) now hidden?
IN HIM! Chosen in Him!

​

​

And raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, ​

in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, ​

expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:6-7​

For, we are destined to be declared to be what?
"Bone of His bones, and glorious flesh of His glorious body!

We (the Church) have been chosen before the foundations of the world, to become as He is in His glorious body!

Keep in mind!
Moses and Isaiah were not chosen and predestined for such a glorious blessing!

 

[HeIsHere]

I cant speak for anybody else, but I for one am absolutely thrilled.
Smells and tastes like victory to me. Total victory. Delicious.

Did I miss something, it would be nice to have truth prevail.
Though certainly the numbers seems to tipped against the "unable to respond positively crowd."

 

[Genez]

A mere pesky, insignificant detail....

And... Would you like a finger bowl with your dainties, sir?

 

[Cameron143]

My answer is, you refuse to believe Paul, Jesus etc., you will not believe me .........not that I am believing that you do not already have your own opinion on the question so stay where you are, you seem content in your folly, not much more I can do about except pray I guess.

You are like many here. You make points, but when people ask questions that the answers if you give them will undermine your position, you refuse to answer.

 

[Rufus]

How does that change anything? God foreknew who would be found IN HIM (in Christ).

Btw, if you have any desire whatsoever to try to defend any part of Calvinism, then Romans 8:29 is a verse that you should avoid like the plague.

Rom 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

The only thing that the Bible says anybody was predestinated to is in relation to CHRISTIANS (not a word about non-Christians being predestinated to anything) being predestinated unto the adoption.

Eph 1:5
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

In context, the "us" are Christians (Eph. 1:1), and the adoption, as is explained elsewhere in scripture, which we have predestinated unto is the receiving of glorified bodies at Christ's return.

Rom 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

In other words, when Calvinists claim that God has "predestinated" some to eternal damnation, as with everything else, they have no clue as to what the Bible actually teaches on the topic.

Read Rom 8:30 some day.

 

[cv5]

And... Would you like a finger bowl with your dainties, sir?

Somebody needs to come up with a paint-by-numbers study Bible for these Calvinites.
But I am afraid that even this would be waste of effort, as is everything else it seems.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If the preaching of the gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing, what happens that makes them believe it so it is no longer foolishness?

It’s foolishness because they don’t believe it . Like if someone is always preaching about flying pigs , you don’t believe in flying pigs ( probably ) and so if I’m always telling you about the flying pig theory it’s going to be foolishness because you don’t believe what’s being said

why are they perishing ?

“and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Rufus]

We constantly get accused of misrepresenting their beliefs. I for one was stuck in reformed theology for 10 years. I know EXACTLY what they believe. @ForestGreenCook who has participated in this thread, is the only honest one and has come to the logical conclusion of Calvinism and its doctrines. The others participating are still trying to "meet in the middle." One cannot meet in the middle in Calvinism.

Example. One cannot believe in the gospel. Yet, They(most) say they still believe in the great commission. They don't know if they might bump into a "selected special one."
Anyone with any sense at all knows it's POINTLESS. They cannot choose. No need to preach the Gospel........That IS the logical conclusion.

And @ForestGreenCook is the only reformed person that I have seen who is honest about it.

Jan 31, 2024
#171
Kroogz said:
What must I do to be saved?


@ForestGreenCook
Well-known member
Jul 8, 20188,4411,213113

If you are referring to eternally, nothing.
~~~~~~~~

Preaching the gospel is not pointless at all; for God is able to raise the dead and make them hear it and respond positively.

 

[Cranberry]

If the preaching of the gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing, what happens that makes them believe it so it is no longer foolishness?

1 Corinthians 2:10-12
For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God.

 

[HeIsHere]

1 Corinthians 2:10-12
For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God.

Yes, but this is for believers.

 

[cv5]

It’s foolishness because they don’t believe it .
‬‬

Exactly. Simple as that.
But the Calvinites torture these verses until they say what they want like they do the rest.
I have already posted this below DOZENS of times. Crickets. Too bad so sad.

2Th 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received G1209 not G3756 the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The KJV translates Strong's G1209 in the following manner: receive (52x), take (4x), accept (2x), take up (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to take with the hand
   1. to take hold of, take up
2. to take up, receive
   1. used of a place receiving one
   2. to receive or grant access to, a visitor, not to refuse intercourse or friendship
      1. to receive hospitality
      2. to receive into one's family to bring up or educate
   3. of the thing offered in speaking, teaching, instructing
      1. to receive favourably, give ear to, embrace, make one's own, approve, not to reject
   4. to receive. i.e. to take upon one's self, sustain, bear, endure
3. to receive, get
   1. to learn

 

[Rufus]

And oh brother how the Calvintes assiduously tip-toe around that land mine!
Right @Cameron143 ?
I mean thats ground zero right?

I don't tip-toe through it. The Potter makes two lumps out of one, doesn't he?

 

[Cameron143]

It’s foolishness because they don’t believe it . Like if someone is always preaching about flying pigs , you don’t believe in flying pigs ( probably ) and so if I’m always telling you about the flying pig theory it’s going to be foolishness because you don’t believe what’s being said

Right. But what changes so I do believe pigs fly?

 

[Rufus]

All the Father gives to Him will come to Him?

YES!

The Father only gives to the Son those whom the Father was able to draw completion to Himself!
But the Father is invisible and can not be perceived by men in a concrete way. It's a subconscious state of being.
So how does the Father reveal himself to those He knows want Him?

Voilà! His Son! Whom they can see and touch and hear!

To see Jesus is to see the Father in human terms! John 14:9

In other words, the Father is a shaky "first responder" because his abilities are finite, limited?

 

[cv5]

Exactly. Simple as that.
But the Calvinites torture these verses until they say what they want like they do the rest.
I have already posted this below DOZENS of times. Crickets. Too bad so sad.

2Th 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received G1209 not G3756 the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The KJV translates Strong's G1209 in the following manner: receive (52x), take (4x), accept (2x), take up (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to take with the hand
   1. to take hold of, take up
2. to take up, receive
   1. used of a place receiving one
   2. to receive or grant access to, a visitor, not to refuse intercourse or friendship
      1. to receive hospitality
      2. to receive into one's family to bring up or educate
   3. of the thing offered in speaking, teaching, instructing
      1. to receive favourably, give ear to, embrace, make one's own, approve, not to reject
   4. to receive. i.e. to take upon one's self, sustain, bear, endure
3. to receive, get
   1. to learn

Crickets. In the face of profundity. Thats how the Calvinites roll.

[2Ki 6:5 KJV]
But as one was felling a beam, the axe head fell into the water: and he cried, and said, Alas, master! for it was borrowed.

[2Ki 6:6 KJV]
And the man of God said, Where fell it? And he shewed him the place. And he cut down a stick, and cast [it] in thither; and the iron did swim.

[2Ki 6:7 KJV]
Therefore said he, Take [it] up to thee. And he put out his hand, and took it.

 

[HeIsHere]

It’s foolishness because they don’t believe it .

Yes, very different than saying they cannot or are unable to believe it and respond positively to the message..... and it is not because of their fallen human nature, if one reads the whole chapter Paul is calling for unity he is not talking about the process of salvation.

 

[GWH]

The last sentence is a curious observation. I'll leave you to come to the realization as to what you said.

IOW, he agrees with the biblical definition of free will :^)

 

[Cameron143]

1 Corinthians 2:10-12
For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer, but I'm not asking because I don't know the answers. I'm asking to provoke thought or understand a position someone holds better.

 

[GWH]

You are like many here. You make points, but when people ask questions that the answers if you give them will undermine your position, you refuse to answer.

Spoken by someone who still has refused to give their definition of free will. :^)

 

[Rufus]

Is that soteriology, no.

Isn't "redemption" language of soteriology? Did God redeem both the Hebrews and the Egyptians when He "came down" to "rescue" his firstborn?