Understanding God’s election
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One cannot read this doctrine and see Christ Jesus. It is like He is behind a wall.
You guys go on and on about it, when it is nowhere found in the gospels or Pauls' writing.
Jesus said a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. That's why you have to ignore all that
is said of the natural man, with his heart of stone which cannot bring forth good fruit because
his flesh (of which he is wholly comprised) is actually opposed to the things of the Spirit which
he cannot even understand, but you have him choosing to believe with his hostile-to-God mind.
With the heart we believe. Look up the stony soil and see what you find.
One cannot read this doctrine and see Christ Jesus. It is like He is behind a wall.
Ask yourself what kind of person believes the lies of Satan?
Ask yourself what kind of person repeats the lies of Satan?
What kind of person is on Satan's side of the argument as regards the character of God?
Answer those questions and you will have a firm grip on the true nature Calvinites.
I know what I'm dealing with. And just as Adam was not deceived neither am I deceived.
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I would prefer to be like an ostrich an put my head in the sand, but after going deeper into this "dogma" I do see what you are saying.
I have been thinking a lot about wolves in sheep's clothing... what kind of person indeed.
No compunction with promoting a god who withholds salvation from some who were not chosen.
I have been thinking a lot about wolves in sheep's clothing... what kind of person indeed.
No compunction with promoting a god who withholds salvation from some who were not chosen.
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I would prefer to be like an ostrich an put my head in the sand, but after going deeper into this "dogma" I do see what you are saying.
I have been thinking a lot about wolves in sheep's clothing... what kind of person indeed.
No compunction with promoting a god who withholds salvation from some who were not chosen.
I have been thinking a lot about wolves in sheep's clothing... what kind of person indeed.
No compunction with promoting a god who withholds salvation from some who were not chosen.
Such disgusting things they say! My goodness. They border on blasphemy, like telling us God raped Mary.
What kind of sick mind comes up with such deliberately contrived ignorance?
Oh, but I if I were a betting person I would bet you would call me a wolf simply because I protest such nonsense.
Seems like so many verses calling people to believe.
Interesting I am looking for that verse where is states .....
"you cannot believe, first I (God) have to change you from the inside, this includes regeneration and other such internal operations so you can believe."
Not finding it anywhere. Good thing, I knew it wasn't true.
Interesting I am looking for that verse where is states .....
"you cannot believe, first I (God) have to change you from the inside, this includes regeneration and other such internal operations so you can believe."
Not finding it anywhere. Good thing, I knew it wasn't true.
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yes but one cannot believe in Christ until their hearts are brought to the point where they can believe be that a repentant heart or a heart longing for something more a heart must go through a certain change first or else believing in him will not result in a changed heart at least not a genuine one you get the Christian by title only not a Christian by heart.
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I would prefer to be like an ostrich an put my head in the sand, but after going deeper into this "dogma" I do see what you are saying.
I have been thinking a lot about wolves in sheep's clothing... what kind of person indeed.
No compunction with promoting a god who withholds salvation from some who were not chosen.
I have been thinking a lot about wolves in sheep's clothing... what kind of person indeed.
No compunction with promoting a god who withholds salvation from some who were not chosen.
Who does that remind you of?
And yes, Satan is a jive talking pseudo-philosophical spiritual snake oil salesman too. His conniving is eeriely similar to a lot of posts on this thread.
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They go for head knowledge belief when it is with the heart we believe, so they have people believing with a stony uncircumcised heart and a mind that is hostile to God when it just does not work that way. The person who is a slave to sin, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, captive to the will of the devil, yeah, that is the guy they say will choose with his own will to switch to the will of God. The person explicitly said incapable of submitting to God's law they have obeying. The bad tree bringing forth good fruit. They even deny that personal revelation is necessary and say God is unfair for revealing Himself personally. They have the natural man believing what is foolishness to him. They have the man of flesh which opposes the things of the spirit desiring the things of the Spirit of God. Yeah, no, it does not work that way.
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It's foolishness because they cannot comprehend it. They don't believe it because it makes no sense. They have no understanding.
Many atheists think they do understand but they don't. They might even brag about how well they know the Bible.
But that is all only head knowledge after all. It is not accompanied by understanding.
Many atheists think they do understand but they don't. They might even brag about how well they know the Bible.
But that is all only head knowledge after all. It is not accompanied by understanding.
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A couple of verses and POOF go the Calvinite heresies. Probably knocked off at least half a dozen just now.
[Gen 24:5, 8 KJV] 5 And the servant said unto him, Peradventure the woman will not be willing to follow me unto this land: must I needs bring thy son again unto the land from whence thou camest?
... 8 And if the woman will not be willing to follow thee, then thou shalt be clear from this my oath: only bring not my son thither again.
[Gen 24:5, 8 KJV] 5 And the servant said unto him, Peradventure the woman will not be willing to follow me unto this land: must I needs bring thy son again unto the land from whence thou camest?
... 8 And if the woman will not be willing to follow thee, then thou shalt be clear from this my oath: only bring not my son thither again.
You know, your repeated perversions of what I have actually said are getting a bit tiring. I will try to reason with you one more time, and then, as is the norm, you can ignore whatever I actually say while continuing to cling to your erroneous views.
First of all, I have repeatedly stated not only what God foreknows, but who he foreknows. In other words, if he foreknows that certain people (the who) will embrace the gospel of Christ (the what), then he foreknows both the who and the what. I mean, I could say what I just said to a 10 year old, and they would understand it.
I leave out Ephesians 1:4? What a joke, or should I say what an outright lie? I have referenced Ephesians 1:4 multiple times, and it is the death knell of your erroneous beliefs, so why would I even consider leaving it out of the conversation? Let's read it, one last time, in context.
Eph 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Eph 1:2
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Who did the choosing in verse 4? According to verse 3, God the Father did the choosing.
Who is the us who were chosen by God the Father in verse 4? According to verse 1, the us were Paul, the saints which were at Ephesus, and the faithful in Christ Jesus.
In what way were they chosen in verse 4? They were chosen IN HIM or IN CHRIST.
When were they chosen IN HIM? They were chosen IN HIM before the foundation of the world.
Now, if you have any sense whatsoever, then you should ask yourself the following question:
When did Paul, the saints which were at Ephesus, and the faithful in Christ Jesus find themselves IN HIM or IN CHRIST?
Were any of them IN HIM before the foundation of the world? No, they were not. For example, elsewhere, Paul said:
Rom 16:7
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
If Paul was somehow IN HIM or IN CHRIST before the foundation of the world, then how in the world could Andronicus and Junia have been IN CHRIST BEFORE HIM? Paul, like everybody else who has ever been found to be IN HIM or IN CHRIST, got in by believing the gospel of salvation, and that did not occur before the foundation of the world.
Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Paul, the saints which were at Ephesus, and the faithful in Christ Jesus all were found to be in him AFTER they believed the gospel of their salvation, and not before the foundation of the world.
My point?
That Christ was chosen before the foundation of the world as God's elected means of salvation, and those who are ultimately found to be IN HIM through belief in the gospel of salvation were chosen IN HIM before the foundation of the world. You are leaving out the IN HIM part.
Going back to my Noah's Ark analogy, the ark was God's chosen means of salvation. God strove with everybody by his Spirit back in that day, and Noah was a preacher of righteousness. In other words, unless God is some sadistic monster who was waving something before the people which they could never embrace, he wanted none to perish, but all to repent unto salvation. God, in his foreknowledge, knew who would ultimately board the ark, or who would ultimately be found IN THE ARK, but everyone was invited. The same principle applies with Christ. Again, Christ is God's chosen means of salvation from sin. God, in his foreknowledge, knows who will be found IN HIM or IN CHRIST, but everybody is invited to enter in. Not according to Calvin's false "god" who you continually defend. If I have not made this clear enough already, then I will say it one last time.
I REPUDIATE Calvin's false "god" with every fiber of my being.
You also obviously do not know what the grace of God is all about. In other words, as with a marriage proposal, it is something which needs to be received or accepted. Of course, according to Calvin's false "god," it is allegedly "irresistible," and I have already provided enough portions of scripture to refute that nonsense, so I will not repeat myself now.
Anyhow, you obviously have shut your ears to the truth in regard to this matter, so I am not going to waste another second trying to somehow bore your ears open.
Oh, wait. I almost forgot the best part. I, according to you, am presenting things which conflict with the idea that God is no respecter of persons?
LOL!!!
No, that would be Calvin and his misguided followers/supporters who insist that God chose some people, before the foundation of the world, and without any say of their own in the matter, to be either eternally saved or eternally damned. if that is your "god," then...
I have already provided more than enough sound, biblical truth here, so I will now leave this conversation. Bye.
First of all, I have repeatedly stated not only what God foreknows, but who he foreknows. In other words, if he foreknows that certain people (the who) will embrace the gospel of Christ (the what), then he foreknows both the who and the what. I mean, I could say what I just said to a 10 year old, and they would understand it.
I leave out Ephesians 1:4? What a joke, or should I say what an outright lie? I have referenced Ephesians 1:4 multiple times, and it is the death knell of your erroneous beliefs, so why would I even consider leaving it out of the conversation? Let's read it, one last time, in context.
Eph 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Eph 1:2
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Who did the choosing in verse 4? According to verse 3, God the Father did the choosing.
Who is the us who were chosen by God the Father in verse 4? According to verse 1, the us were Paul, the saints which were at Ephesus, and the faithful in Christ Jesus.
In what way were they chosen in verse 4? They were chosen IN HIM or IN CHRIST.
When were they chosen IN HIM? They were chosen IN HIM before the foundation of the world.
Now, if you have any sense whatsoever, then you should ask yourself the following question:
When did Paul, the saints which were at Ephesus, and the faithful in Christ Jesus find themselves IN HIM or IN CHRIST?
Were any of them IN HIM before the foundation of the world? No, they were not. For example, elsewhere, Paul said:
Rom 16:7
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
If Paul was somehow IN HIM or IN CHRIST before the foundation of the world, then how in the world could Andronicus and Junia have been IN CHRIST BEFORE HIM? Paul, like everybody else who has ever been found to be IN HIM or IN CHRIST, got in by believing the gospel of salvation, and that did not occur before the foundation of the world.
Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Paul, the saints which were at Ephesus, and the faithful in Christ Jesus all were found to be in him AFTER they believed the gospel of their salvation, and not before the foundation of the world.
My point?
That Christ was chosen before the foundation of the world as God's elected means of salvation, and those who are ultimately found to be IN HIM through belief in the gospel of salvation were chosen IN HIM before the foundation of the world. You are leaving out the IN HIM part.
Going back to my Noah's Ark analogy, the ark was God's chosen means of salvation. God strove with everybody by his Spirit back in that day, and Noah was a preacher of righteousness. In other words, unless God is some sadistic monster who was waving something before the people which they could never embrace, he wanted none to perish, but all to repent unto salvation. God, in his foreknowledge, knew who would ultimately board the ark, or who would ultimately be found IN THE ARK, but everyone was invited. The same principle applies with Christ. Again, Christ is God's chosen means of salvation from sin. God, in his foreknowledge, knows who will be found IN HIM or IN CHRIST, but everybody is invited to enter in. Not according to Calvin's false "god" who you continually defend. If I have not made this clear enough already, then I will say it one last time.
I REPUDIATE Calvin's false "god" with every fiber of my being.
You also obviously do not know what the grace of God is all about. In other words, as with a marriage proposal, it is something which needs to be received or accepted. Of course, according to Calvin's false "god," it is allegedly "irresistible," and I have already provided enough portions of scripture to refute that nonsense, so I will not repeat myself now.
Anyhow, you obviously have shut your ears to the truth in regard to this matter, so I am not going to waste another second trying to somehow bore your ears open.
Oh, wait. I almost forgot the best part. I, according to you, am presenting things which conflict with the idea that God is no respecter of persons?
LOL!!!
No, that would be Calvin and his misguided followers/supporters who insist that God chose some people, before the foundation of the world, and without any say of their own in the matter, to be either eternally saved or eternally damned. if that is your "god," then...
I have already provided more than enough sound, biblical truth here, so I will now leave this conversation. Bye.
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