Applying God's Word to Politics

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Oct 19, 2024
1,737
441
83
That is along the same lines as mine: Do you want 10 million people cutting in line in front of you?

Biblical answer? (The first shall be last :^)
So whether or not illegal immigrants also commit another crime is moot, but the question becomes whether we should increase the quota for legal immigration.

Trump wants to begin by training/reeducating American college graduates with worthless degrees at vocational schools so they can find employment at a family-of-four-supporting wage before increasing illegal immigration to the point where the competition for blue-collar jobs would depress wages below that level--which is a balancing act requiring the wisdom of Solomon to be sure, especially when it involves administering tariffs in a way that will promote job formation without unduly causing inflation.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,995
2,161
113
46
So whether or not illegal immigrants also commit another crime is moot, but the question becomes whether we should increase the quota for legal immigration.

Trump wants to begin by training/reeducating American college graduates with worthless degrees at vocational schools so they can find employment at a family-of-four-supporting wage before increasing illegal immigration to the point where the competition for blue-collar jobs would depress wages below that level--which is a balancing act requiring the wisdom of Solomon to be sure, especially when it involves administering tariffs in a way that will promote job formation without unduly causing inflation.
Totally agree with this.
 
May 23, 2016
4,319
1,447
113
Applying Christian beliefs to politics has been problematic ever since Peter told the Sanhedrin "We must obey God rather than men!" (Acts 5:29)

How should we do this in the current political situation to issues such as national borders, abortion, globalism and lawfare?
The Jews were wanting the Messiah to establish an earthly kingdom, and to get rid of the Roman occupation. Jesus did not cooperate. Instead he cared for the poor, preached the gospel of the Kingdom, and suffered when necessary. He never tried to legislate holiness nor to force biblical principles on others.

Let us do the same.
 
Dec 19, 2024
2
0
1
Applying Christian beliefs to politics has been problematic ever since Peter told the Sanhedrin "We must obey God rather than men!" (Acts 5:29)

How should we do this in the current political situation to issues such as national borders, abortion, globalism and lawfare?
I feel like we can still vote with our own values, there isn't this dividing line when it comes to what we deem to be right and what we deem to be wrong that doesn't apply to the way we vote. Like, the Bible is very clear we should care for the poor, so I will vote for the party that prioritizes that the most.
 
May 23, 2016
4,319
1,447
113
Applying Christian beliefs to politics has been problematic ever since Peter told the Sanhedrin "We must obey God rather than men!" (Acts 5:29)

How should we do this in the current political situation to issues such as national borders, abortion, globalism and lawfare?
Which political party does better at "loving their enemies"?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,462
6,720
113
My thinking regarding the subject of this thread, is, to which political party, in this age, would our Lord, Jesus Yeshua claim?

Mine is the absolute monarchy of our Blessed King, there is no rival, not here, and not in the age to come.
 
Oct 19, 2024
1,737
441
83
The Jews were wanting the Messiah to establish an earthly kingdom, and to get rid of the Roman occupation. Jesus did not cooperate. Instead he cared for the poor, preached the gospel of the Kingdom, and suffered when necessary. He never tried to legislate holiness nor to force biblical principles on others.

Let us do the same.
Not sure why you think Jesus would teach us to pray for God's kingdom to come/His will be done on earth and not put feet to that prayer, especially when he indicated that his disciples should be the salt and light of earthly society.

It is true that Christ's method for fulfilling the prayer is preaching and persuasion rather than legislation and coercion. The greatest in the KOG is the greatest servant of all/God.
 
Oct 19, 2024
1,737
441
83
I feel like we can still vote with our own values, there isn't this dividing line when it comes to what we deem to be right and what we deem to be wrong that doesn't apply to the way we vote. Like, the Bible is very clear we should care for the poor, so I will vote for the party that prioritizes that the most.
I agree that helping the poor is an important value, but discernment is needed regarding how to do that. Jesus once stated that “the poor you will always have with you” (MT 26:11). However, He also taught us to “give to the poor” (MT 19:21). These verses suggest that we should do our best to alleviate, if not completely eliminate, the problems related to poverty.

We know that “You shall not steal” (EX 20:15) is the eighth of the Ten Commandments (TOJ #110). Yet, implicit in the command of Jesus is that if the rich share their wealth by not exploiting workers or stealing in the form of maximizing their profits by paying workers as little as possible, then people will not need to steal in order to survive.

The apostle Paul synthesized these two commands in Ephesians 4:28, saying: “He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need.” Another command (in 2THS 3:10) states: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.” Paul also states (in 1TM 5:8): “If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” And again, he wrote: “Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality.” (2CR 8:13)

Equality does not require uniformity or conformity or a communist system, which results in a smaller pie to share/equal poverty except for the rulers, but rather that every person should have an equal opportunity to earn a living. Sewing these verses together with spiritual thread, we can discern that the will of God is for people who are able to work to seek employment, so that earning a fair wage will provide at least the basic necessities plus something (a tithe or tenth per Malachi 3:8-10) left over for charity.

Full employment at a livable wage is a wonderful goal; the problem is how to achieve it. On one side of the debate are those who seem to believe that government can solve the problem of poverty by giving people welfare in one form or another. On the other side of the issue are those who stress that every able-bodied adult should work and support themselves without charity (sometimes called workfare). The “welfarists” criticize the “workfarists” for an apparent lack of sympathy for the poor, while the “workfarists” say the “welfarists” create permanent dependency by the poor. The area of agreement by both sides surely includes the fact that people sometimes experience financial misfortunes beyond their control and need help. Perhaps most people would agree that the need for help often exceeds the capabilities of many families and private agencies, so there is a need for government to do something, but what should wise governments do to encourage industry and discourage laziness?

It seems reasonable that governments should encourage employers to pay workers a wage that will provide at least a subsistence level of living (including food, clothes and shelter) plus ten percent (a “tithe”) for a family of four people. Parents should not procreate more children than they can afford to support,. although promoting a replacement birth rate seems desirable. It also seems reasonable for a typical work week to be no more than six days (then a “Sabbath”), and for a typical work day to be no more than ten hours (although MT 20:1-8 speaks of sunrise to sunset), so that workers have enough time to rest and be with their families.

My idea about how governments might help people find jobs utilizes the concept of indentured employment is as follows. Every county seat and large town would have a job assistance office, and all of these would be connected by a nationwide computer system. People could apply for a job anywhere in the country, and the federal government and hiring business would split the costs of relocation and training for those below a qualifying amount of assets. In return the employee would have to commit to some minimum time of employment (similar to the contract rules of the National Football League).

During the term of the contract, the employee’s tithe (the amount of the minimum wage that is above subsistence level) would be garnisheed until the hiring costs were reimbursed up to some limit that corresponded to the length of the contract. (Assuming a minimum wage of $5 per hour for 10 hours per day for six days per week, the subsistence level income would be $300 per week or $15,600 per year plus ten percent. If the cost of hiring were $500, the maximum indentured term would be about 3.2 years at the rate of the garnisheed tithe of $156 per year.)

The federal government would insure the contract and reimburse employers if an indentured employee wanted to quit before the costs associated with their hiring were recouped. Quitters would not be eligible for welfare; they would have to accept another job, unless they could support themselves some other legal way. (Of course, those who resorted to crime in order to make a living would be punished with a just penalty.) The amount of hiring costs owed from their previous job would be added to the new contract.

Ideally, this program would be self-supporting, but it may need to be subsidized by the federal budget, so that the minimum wage and cost of living would be equivalent for everyone in the country. Surely the cost of helping people become productive workers should be much less than that of adequate welfare. This program would only guarantee job opportunities for legal citizen independent adults. It would provide tax incentives that reward companies who have profit-sharing (and loss-sharing for CEOs), healthcare, retirement plans, and other benefits such as those mentioned previously.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,995
2,161
113
46
To all the newcomers in this thread: You're not going to convince the sergeant that the Kingdom of God is not related to politics but you can enjoy his sense of humor and his other wise and true comments on other topics.
 
Oct 19, 2024
1,737
441
83
Which political party does better at "loving their enemies"?
Some people think it was divinely appointed for the Obama-Biden administrations to implement globalist policies and lawfare methods so that sane Americans would finally realize how morally bankrupt Marxist-Fascist ideology is. Trump implemented many good policies during his first term that flipped the parties so that the Republicans now represent the lower and middle working classes, while the Democrats are dominated by rich oligarchs, racists and warmongers rather than peacemakers.
 
Oct 19, 2024
1,737
441
83
To all the newcomers in this thread: You're not going to convince the sergeant that the Kingdom of God is not related to politics but you can enjoy his sense of humor and his other wise and true comments on other topics.
Well, it would be interesting to see whether folks take the Lord's Prayer seriously or blow it off. :^)
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,995
2,161
113
46
Well, it would be interesting to see whether folks take the Lord's Prayer seriously or blow it off. :^)
This is why i like you because you're stubborn and clueless about it. :):coffee:

But also if we agree 100% with each-other on everything then what are we going to talk about all day?
 
Oct 19, 2024
1,737
441
83
This is why i like you because you're stubborn and clueless about it. :):coffee:

But also if we agree 100% with each-other on everything then what are we going to talk about all day?
That question applies to everyone on CC, but we won't need to answer it until that happens in a few more days as w'all learn to become humble and mature via LGW taught by the HS--but as yet no one else is voting either way. :^(
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,995
2,161
113
46
That question applies to everyone on CC, but we won't need to answer it until that happens in a few more days as w'all learn to become humble and mature via LGW taught by the HS--but as yet no one else is voting either way. :^(
I hear you.
But the thing is that the thought that you might agree with me worries me a lot.
I mean, say one day you have a moment of clarity and humility and you realize that the KOG has nothing to do with Politics while that Johnny Nash song is playing in the background "I can see clearly now". Say that happens.
Then what am i going to do?
Sit on the table with you drinking coffee without saying anything anymore?
No sir. That scares me.
 
Oct 19, 2024
1,737
441
83
I hear you.
But the thing is that the thought that you might agree with me worries me a lot.
I mean, say one day you have a moment of clarity and humility and you realize that the KOG has nothing to do with Politics while that Johnny Nash song is playing in the background "I can see clearly now". Say that happens.
Then what am i going to do?
Sit on the table with you drinking coffee without saying anything anymore?
No sir. That scares me.
LOL! Luckily, everyone else on this thread agrees with Jesus! :sneaky::oops::p:mad:

(Belay the last!)
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,995
2,161
113
46
LOL! Luckily, everyone else on this thread agrees with Jesus! :sneaky::oops::p:mad:

(Belay the last!)
I mean i'm glad that some agree with Jesus where He didn't satisfy the Jews by giving them an Earthly kingdom as they expected but even if you disagree with Jesus, i think He will be loving and merciful towards you because He gave up His life for us all.
In due time He will explain to you everything you need to know and by then we will be in Heaven where we won't have to worry about silence in coffee tables anymore.
 
Oct 19, 2024
1,737
441
83
I mean i'm glad that some agree with Jesus where He didn't satisfy the Jews by giving them an Earthly kingdom as they expected but even if you disagree with Jesus, i think He will be loving and merciful towards you because He gave up His life for us all.
In due time He will explain to you everything you need to know and by then we will be in Heaven where we won't have to worry about silence in coffee tables anymore.
"This is why i like you because you're stubborn and clueless about it. :):coffee: "

The "some" agree with the desire/prayer of Jesus to bring the KOG on earth, which is spiritual and moral per LK 17:20b-21, "The coming of the KOG is not something that can be observed, nor will people say. Here it is, or there it is, because the KOG is in your midst."
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,995
2,161
113
46
"This is why i like you because you're stubborn and clueless about it. :):coffee: "

The "some" agree with the desire/prayer of Jesus to bring the KOG on earth, which is spiritual and moral per LK 17:20b-21, "The coming of the KOG is not something that can be observed, nor will people say. Here it is, or there it is, because the KOG is in your midst."
Hold on a second. This changes everything!
This means that the KOG has nothing to do with MAGA then? Because MAGA is material?

Please don't say so!
 
Oct 19, 2024
1,737
441
83
Hold on a second. This changes everything!
This means that the KOG has nothing to do with MAGA then? Because MAGA is material?

Please don't say so!
MAGA means "make America great again", which for Christian MAGAists means "make America Godlike always", beginning with ourselves, continuing with our families, friends and churches, and including secular society such as schools, businesses, city councils, state legislatures, and the federal government--as far as salt and light or love and truth can reach.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,995
2,161
113
46
MAGA means "make America great again", which for Christian MAGAists means "make America Godlike always", beginning with ourselves, continuing with our families, friends and churches, and including secular society such as schools, businesses, city councils, state legislatures, and the federal government--as far as salt and light or love and truth can reach.
Phew, you scared me for a second there and i thought you agreed with me but looks like we're good. :coffee: