Understanding God’s election
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Not the case...
TULIP has God sovereignly making an arbitrary choice on who he will save.
And, if he wants that person saved?
He will not be able to resist...
Meaning....
God makes a choice concerning whom he wants to not resist salvation.
While simultaneously, the Bible states that he desires all men to be saved.
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving
be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live
peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases
God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge
of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:1-4
TULIP has God sovereignly making an arbitrary choice on who he will save.
And, if he wants that person saved?
He will not be able to resist...
Meaning....
God makes a choice concerning whom he wants to not resist salvation.
While simultaneously, the Bible states that he desires all men to be saved.
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving
be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live
peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases
God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge
of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:1-4
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Elect means exactly the same as when Israel was the chosen, the elect nation.
Israel is non-elect now but the Gentiles are elect in Christ.
The letter to the Romans taught me the distinction between the Jews and the Gentiles.
The letter to the Romans also taught me why the nation of Israel became non-elect.
Romans 10:21
But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”
It's not as though God just passed over the nation of Israel.
Israel is non-elect now but the Gentiles are elect in Christ.
The letter to the Romans taught me the distinction between the Jews and the Gentiles.
The letter to the Romans also taught me why the nation of Israel became non-elect.
Romans 10:21
But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”
It's not as though God just passed over the nation of Israel.
My turn?
My view is GWT (God's Word Theology :^), which understands that God elects everyone who chooses to repent of unbelief (and immorality) and seek Him (MT 7:7, HB 11:6) or have saving faith in Christ. GWT believes that moral free will is the aspect of being created in the image of God that makes humanity higher than the animals and that it is retained even by fallen humanity.
Calvinists dispute this understanding, which leads its adherents to conclude that God must be a tyrannical bully who forces his will upon souls, who are thus less than human--just mere robots--and makes God's judgment less than righteous, because robots are not morally accountable if they lack the ability to choose to seek God.
The bottom line actual difference between GWT and Calvinism is that the former view the ability to accept God's grace by faith as non-meritorious, whereas the latter make it a meritorious work that earns salvation via human effort. The Savior's main role per GWT is loving humanity and administering a POS for all who accept the role of Messiah's atonement for their sins, but sadly many refuse to seek salvation God's Way.
Therefore, with respect to prayer for lost souls, those who believe in free will pray for lost souls just as Jesus did in MT 23:37 and JN 17:20-21, although we realize the frustration Jesus had with those who would not repent per MT 13:14-15, because God does not force them to repent of their sins and believe the gospel and be saved against their will, which makes them responsible for their own just condemnation.
Similarly, although God could prevent illness, He doesn't because His will is for medical doctors to treat physical ailments. Normally, God grants prayers for healing via human agency rather than via miracles, so the best (most efficient :^) prayer is for His will to be done as Jesus prayed (MT 26:39&42) regarding all of life (MT 6:10). God is not our genie!
My view is GWT (God's Word Theology :^), which understands that God elects everyone who chooses to repent of unbelief (and immorality) and seek Him (MT 7:7, HB 11:6) or have saving faith in Christ. GWT believes that moral free will is the aspect of being created in the image of God that makes humanity higher than the animals and that it is retained even by fallen humanity.
Calvinists dispute this understanding, which leads its adherents to conclude that God must be a tyrannical bully who forces his will upon souls, who are thus less than human--just mere robots--and makes God's judgment less than righteous, because robots are not morally accountable if they lack the ability to choose to seek God.
The bottom line actual difference between GWT and Calvinism is that the former view the ability to accept God's grace by faith as non-meritorious, whereas the latter make it a meritorious work that earns salvation via human effort. The Savior's main role per GWT is loving humanity and administering a POS for all who accept the role of Messiah's atonement for their sins, but sadly many refuse to seek salvation God's Way.
Therefore, with respect to prayer for lost souls, those who believe in free will pray for lost souls just as Jesus did in MT 23:37 and JN 17:20-21, although we realize the frustration Jesus had with those who would not repent per MT 13:14-15, because God does not force them to repent of their sins and believe the gospel and be saved against their will, which makes them responsible for their own just condemnation.
Similarly, although God could prevent illness, He doesn't because His will is for medical doctors to treat physical ailments. Normally, God grants prayers for healing via human agency rather than via miracles, so the best (most efficient :^) prayer is for His will to be done as Jesus prayed (MT 26:39&42) regarding all of life (MT 6:10). God is not our genie!
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"My prayer is... that all of them may be one, Father... so that the world may believe that you have sent me... that they may be one as we are one... that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me." (JN 17:20-23)
"Watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them, for such people are not serving the Lord Christ, but their own appetites." (RM 16:17-18a, cf. 1CR 12:10&25, TIT 3:10)
"Watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them, for such people are not serving the Lord Christ, but their own appetites." (RM 16:17-18a, cf. 1CR 12:10&25, TIT 3:10)
Above, you compare God's displeasure with an earthly nation, Israel, and its corporate religious structure - to His eternal spiritual choice of particular individuals unto salvation. 1 Peter 1 (which originally began the discussion), is directed primarily to the spiritual not the earthly—those whom God chose for salvation and why - but Israel (in your context) is earthly not spiritual. It was never God's intention to spiritually save all Jews nor the earthly nation of Israel as a whole, therefore, His choice of it was only applicable in the temporal. If I correctly understand your point, I believe the comparison you've made is logically inconsistent and should not be used
as a basis for the interpretation of 1Peter 1.
as a basis for the interpretation of 1Peter 1.
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I'm not going to go through each of your citations to refute them (but I could), but just as an FYI, you have the wrong world in view. In Jhn 17:21, Jesus is speaking of the world to come, not this current world. This is demonstrated in Jhn17-9 where Jesus tells us that He prays not for this (current) world but only for those whom the Father has given Him who are in this current world. We are also clearly told in 18:36, that Jesus's kingdom is not of this world, so again, the world mentioned n Jhn 17:21, can't be this one. This leaves only the world to come and those who are to inhabit it as those who will come to believe that the Father sent Jesus as the Savior; they who are the ones whom the Father had given to Jesus, no others.
[Jhn 17:9 KJV] 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
[Jhn 18:36 KJV] 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
[Jhn 17:9 KJV] 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
[Jhn 18:36 KJV] 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
And the thing is......the Bible NEVER states that receiving Jesus for the remission of sins is in any way a "work" as the Calvinites define it.
Nor does the Bible EVER state that the act of believing on Jesus makes the petitioner in any way his own savior.
On the contrary, the call to repentance is a COMMAND......a DUTY.
Every man's DUTY is to confess the truth that we are sinners and speak the truth that Jesus is Lord. And after that we are qualified to become SERVANTS. Which is NOTHING MORE than resetting to our original mandate which was conferred upon us at creation.
[Luk 17:9 NIV]
Will he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do?
[Luk 17:10 NIV]
So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.' "
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Conclusion: there is NO SPECIAL MERIT when the sinner does his DUTY (per Gods RIGHTEOUS command) and repents and is graciously given the opportunity to be recommissioned to his God-mandated servanthood.
Nor does the Bible EVER state that the act of believing on Jesus makes the petitioner in any way his own savior.
On the contrary, the call to repentance is a COMMAND......a DUTY.
Every man's DUTY is to confess the truth that we are sinners and speak the truth that Jesus is Lord. And after that we are qualified to become SERVANTS. Which is NOTHING MORE than resetting to our original mandate which was conferred upon us at creation.
[Luk 17:9 NIV]
Will he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do?
[Luk 17:10 NIV]
So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.' "
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Conclusion: there is NO SPECIAL MERIT when the sinner does his DUTY (per Gods RIGHTEOUS command) and repents and is graciously given the opportunity to be recommissioned to his God-mandated servanthood.
You Calvintes sure do a lot of bloviating about what God's intentions are and who He is NOT saving.
And then you gloss everything you erroneously declare with a coat of Calvinite branded "spiritual" whitewash.
As if you have special gnosis where you alone can discern the difference between spiritual things and any other thing.
However, when spiritual discernment is required to rightly understand the OT "types" and "patterns" when they are presented,
you blow an engine and careen into the weeds in a ball of flame.
And then you gloss everything you erroneously declare with a coat of Calvinite branded "spiritual" whitewash.
As if you have special gnosis where you alone can discern the difference between spiritual things and any other thing.
However, when spiritual discernment is required to rightly understand the OT "types" and "patterns" when they are presented,
you blow an engine and careen into the weeds in a ball of flame.
