The Gospels and the Mystery

Musicmaster · Dec 23, 2024

The false idea that followers of Christ within the Gospel of Grace believe that Israel and the Church today are exclusive from one another must misrepresent our beliefs in order to try and make their case in the minds of the ignorant masses who do not make any effort to "prove all things" as Paul instructed that we ALL do. Israel today has only the Gospel of Grace, as is true of Gentiles as well. Nobody is saved through works nor works of the Law. Faith alone also does not at all stand upon the foundation that works are unimportant. What we believe is that works are NOT a basis for salvation itself. Christ accomplished all that is necessary toward the Gospel of Grace. Israel was under the coupling of works coupled with the Blood of Christ, but we are not today under that because it was not spoken nor written TO us today. That is the basis for understanding dispensations.

There was a time that Gentiles had to join with Judaism and the Law in order to be saved, but not today.

MM

John146 · Dec 23, 2024

Musicmaster said:

The false idea that followers of Christ within the Gospel of Grace believe that Israel and the Church today are exclusive from one another must misrepresent our beliefs in order to try and make their case in the minds of the ignorant masses who do not make any effort to "prove all things" as Paul instructed that we ALL do. Israel today has only the Gospel of Grace, as is true of Gentiles as well. Nobody is saved through works nor works of the Law. Faith alone also does not at all stand upon the foundation that works are unimportant. What we believe is that works are NOT a basis for salvation itself. Christ accomplished all that is necessary toward the Gospel of Grace. Israel was under the coupling of works coupled with the Blood of Christ, but we are not today under that because it was not spoken nor written TO us today. That is the basis for understanding dispensations.

There was a time that Gentiles had to join with Judaism and the Law in order to be saved, but not today.

MM

A couple of things people miss.
1. The believe is justified by the faith OF Jesus Christ.
2. Failure to rightly divide the book of James and Paul’s 13 epistles.

Musicmaster · Dec 23, 2024

John146 said:

Absolutely. There is the faith OF Christ, and there is our faith IN Christ Jesus:

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 24:24 And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Does the Gospel itself have faith? No, but the Gospel is the power unto salvation;

Colossians 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love [which ye have] to all the saints,

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

James indeed was speaking to Israel, as he clearly indicated in the very first verse of his epistle. The limited knowledge crowd throws what little they know into their theological blenders set on high speed and the lack in distinctions throughout scripture leads them to claim that it's all one gospel throughout. That's the battle cry of the ignorant masses who don't read the scriptures while pasting the cotton on the bunny tails in their milk-toast and wet-noodle Sunday school classes and study groups.

So, the faith of Christ accomplished for man what man could not, and His faith and Spirit within us stirred and empowers our faith.

Amen

MM

Musicmaster · Dec 25, 2024

There is this strange idea that the Lord does not incorporate differences, or changes if you will, throughout His timeline for this earth and mankind. In Genesis 2 we read:

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

...except one, of course.

In Genesis 9 we read:

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

The Lord had man start out as vegetarian, and then later made allowance for man to eat anything and everything that lives as meat, along with herbs. Then in Leviticus, the Lord disallowed certain of the animal kingdom that the Jews were not allowed to eat.

So, the Lord has every right to set and change boundaries and limits, even in diet and clothing, as He has demonstrated throughout history. There are many other examples of things the Lord set forth for mankind in general that changed for reasons that we will no into here, but it's interesting that so many will deny the Lord's sovereignty over the salvation of mankind.

In times past, water baptism was necessary for remission of sins, which, one would normally surmise, is indeed a matter of salvation, for without remission of sins, how can one be saved? Peter said nothing about the Blood of Christ, and neither did Christ nor His disciples say anything about the cross to come in all their ministry in the four Gospels when they preached.

When Paul was raised up and shown a mystery shown that was shown, nor even hinted at, by the Lord to no other man until him, water baptism and entrance into Judaism was no longer the means through which Gentiles must enter in order to be saved. Salvation had to start with the Jews, and then to the Gentiles after the fulfillment of the prophecies and Laws that served as types and shadows of Christ, His crucifixion, burial and resurrection on the third day.

Where do these prideful disallowances come from within mankind if not from the desperate wickedness of the heart to say that the Lord could not have set for changes in His plan for salvation for mankind?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Ephesians 4:17-19
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

The claim of a singular gospel throughout is nothing but willful blindness to the differences of the elements within each gospel. The texts of scripture scream to the reader that we differentiate them in order to see the wondrous way the Lord works. Mankind is shifty and unstable, and thus requires variations in dealings with him...the worldwide flood being a very good case in point.

MM

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Dec 25, 2024

Musicmaster said:

The texts of scripture scream to the reader that Paul baptized with water when he proclaimed the gospel

And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us. Acts 16:14-15

Then [the jailer] called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his house, straightway. Acts 16:29-33

And [Paul] departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue. And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized. Acts 18:7-8

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 19:4-5

Musicmaster · Dec 25, 2024

1 Corinthians 11:27-32
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Many have thought that the "damnation" spoken of in verse 29 has to do with loss of salvation, and the text absolutely does not support that. The truths within the mystery revealed to Paul bear this out. Thayer's Greek Lexicon even says this:

"so to eat as to incur the judgment or punishment of God, 1 Corinthians 11:29"

Also, when we look at the outflow of failure to partake of the body and bloods of Christ in a worthy manner, it is that many are sick and have died a physical death resulting from partaking in such unworthy mannerisms as is stated in verse 30. Nothing is stated in this context that would lend to the idea of loss of salvation.

That is the wonder of this dispensation of grace in that unmerited favor given to us as a gift does not shield us from resulting judgement if and when we fail to judge ourselves, especially in the partaking of the body and blood of Christ Jesus.

MM

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Dec 26, 2024

This passage of scripture nicely refutes the gospel of confusion that teaches Peter proclaimed the gospel of the kingdom to Jews and water baptized, and Paul proclaimed the gospel of grace to the gentiles and didn't water baptize.

Here Paul is in Corinth proclaiming the gospel to both Jews and Greeks. In other words, it was the same gospel to both Jew and gentile.

And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. Acts 18:4

This was his custom in every place he visited up until the time when Jews in the synagogue in Corinth rejected his message, and he responded by saying he would no longer focus on Jews. So this shows that Paul's gospel originally was to both Jews and gentile converts in the synagogues

And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ. And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles. Acts 18:5-7

When he left the synagogue a gentile proselyte who lived next door invited Paul and the other Jews with him, Silas and Timothy, to stay with him. There he continued to proclaim the same gospel to both Jew and gentile, as was his custom, as evidenced by the fact that the chief ruler of the synagogue and gentile proselytes believed Paul's gospel and were water baptized.

And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue. And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized. Acts 18:8-9

So this one passage refutes all points of the gospel of confusion by clearly showing that Paul proclaimed the same gospel to both Jew and gentile and water baptized.

GWH · Dec 26, 2024

Musicmaster said:

While the mystery was not fully revealed until Jesus taught it to Paul, who taught it in his epistles, especially EPH as you noted, there were hints and foreshadowings in the OT, including:

GN 15:6. Abraham’s faith in the Lord was credited to him as righteousness. This was a major theme of the teaching of the apostle Paul in his epistle to the Romans (RM 4:3,9-12&16-17). This is why Paul teaches that a true Jew is one whose “circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code” (RM 2:29). Thus, all who become one with Jesus are spiritual Jews and God’s chosen people (EPH 2:13-3:6), although it is possible that the political nation of Israel may play a further role in history before the eschaton.

GN 22:8. These words of Abraham to Isaac may be viewed as the first prophetic reference to Jesus (JN 1:29), although they had an immediate fulfillment (in v.13). Many years later, Moses instituted the sacrificial system that also portrayed the future messianic atonement. Jesus instituted the observance of the Lord’s Supper as a remembrance of the fact that His death fulfilled this system, so that Believers no longer need to practice it.

IS 9:2&7. These verses are cited in the NT as prophecies about Messiah (servant/chosen one), as is IS 42:1-9, in which Messiah will be “a light for the Gentiles” as well as for the Jews.

This teaching is expressed also in 45:22-23, “Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth… Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.”

A third statement is found in 49:6, “…I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth.”

And again in 60:3, “Nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your dawn.” Finally, in 66:23, “All mankind will come and bow down before me, says the Lord.” Paul wrote about this “new thing” in EPH 2:11-3:13.

JL 2:28. “I will pour out my Spirit on all people… in those days.” And verse 32 says, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved”, which Paul quotes (in RM 10:13).

ZCH 2:11. “Many nations will be joined with the Lord in that day and will become [His] people.” This refers to the latter days between the first or second coming of Christ, when the mystery revealed by Paul occurs: Gentiles as well as Jews who have saving faith like Abraham will become God’s chosen people.

Musicmaster · Dec 26, 2024

Even though we today are under grace through faith, we also understand that works cannot and will not supplement the grace extended to us:

Romans 7:14-20
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

So, all the mother Teresa's and others out there doing all manner of what fleshly people will say was good works, it is all filth so long as the individual is not under grace through faith first and foremost, AND as long as our works are HIs works that He works through us. In and of ourselves, it is because of the inferior nature of our flesh that our works are the basis for being judged for reward.

In other words, ANY individual professor of Christ Jesus who would think their works will be ANYTHING other than a measure for reward, treasure stored in Heavenly places, they are deceived. Teresa did many fleshly works, all of which are filthy rags in relation to salvation, and yet most look at her fleshly labors as the measure of her salvation. If she was not under grace, then she is in Sheol with all others rejected by Christ Jesus.

MM

Musicmaster · Dec 26, 2024

BTW, Satanclause and his elves stole our van Christmas morning...

MM

Musicmaster · Dec 30, 2024

A long-standing, sociological fact, by way of almost a century of studies, has shown that the general populace of the world, in general, are much easier to get them to believe a lie than it is to convince them that they are deceived.

In other words, it is much easier for fake, satanic news and university professors to convince people and students of falsehoods, than it is to convince those same people that they are deceived about any and all the falsehoods they have chosen to believe without ever checking out the facts for themselves. This is why critical thinking is so important.

Modern people have been convinced that moving away from literal interpretation, as a starting point, of biblical texts, as the general rule, compared to primarily allegorizing the scriptures into meaning...well, whatever they WANT to believe, especially when confirmed by their university professor of religious studies and/or their institutional pastor, is allegedly the best practice in these modern times.

This shows to us why so many refuse to acknowledge such things as the fact that Peter preached the Kingdom Gospel while Paul preached the Gospel of Grace. Allegorizing leads to making the scriptures conform to what literally ends up being absolutely inconsistent with the text of scriptures. Allegory allows scripture to become a religious fairy tale where unicorns and elves might well trample through the storyline of whatever one chooses to make as ethereal as they so choose. Why not allow for those mythical creatures to also exist in the text? After all, when one allegorizes on the basis of no absolute standard for interpretation, then it really is a fairy tale of history that has no solid footing in the actual texts of scripture, even when they claim that they are allowing scripture to interpret scripture.

Yeah, right....

We clearly are living in the age of subjectivism, with historic words meaning whatever the modern speaker/writer wants to believe about what they are writing/talking, and the hearer/reader believing whatever they want to 'hear' the text saying, with the meaning forced over into the microcosm of that reader's vantagepoint and forced into conformance to that person's belief system. Injections of things not stated in the text becomes the fodder of fools, as Proverbs points out, given that so much of modern evangelicalism has become so deeply influenced by liberal ideologies.

MM

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Dec 30, 2024

This thread basically

GWH · Dec 31, 2024

The Gospel of Christ is God's Epistle

"Christ is the image of the invisible God,
The firstborn over all creation...
And he is the head of the body, the church...
And the firstborn from among the dead,
So that in everything he might have supremacy.

For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
And through him to reconcile to himself all things...
By making peace through his blood, shed on the cross...
To present you holy in his sight, without blemish...
If you continue in your faith, established and firm,
Not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed
To every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant...
To present to you the word of God in its fullness--the mystery that has been hidden,
But is now disclosed to the saints... which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord,
Continue to live in him... strengthened in the faith as you were taught...
For you have been given... the circumcision done by Christ,
Having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith...
Therefore do not let anyone judge you... who delights in false humility...
Based on human commands and teachings... and worship."

(Colossians 1:15-23, excerpts)

Musicmaster · Dec 31, 2024

The singular gospel model simply is not sustainable when we read the actual wording in scripture, thus refusing to inject what's not there, and leaving out all the subjective allegorizations that rely mostly upon the imaginations of the mind as to meaning and assumed parallels.

The devastating amount of damage is therefore phenomenal to the many denominational religions, including the largest of them all, where the futility in attempting a defense of the idea that works ever has anything to do with securing and/or enhancing some subjective allotment toward salvation, the silly sacraments, dunking in water, penances, confessionals, attendance at religious programs and ceremonies, it all leads to a dead end where salvation is concerned. The texts of scripture simply refuse to provide a legitimate defense of legalistic thinking.

Peter is then seen for the diminishing role he actually played, especially dare we observe in Acts 15 that it was James who spoke for the Jerusalem counsel of the apostles and elders in Peter's presence, and especially given that Peter was not ever THE apostle to the Gentiles, which includes all the other of the apostles who walked with Jesus on this earth.

Because of Israel's decline through her continued rejection of Christ Jesus as Messiah, the Lord could no longer use her as the portal through which Gentiles had to enter to find salvation, as was the case throughout ancient times until after the time of Stephen's stoning and the Lord personally raising up Paul as THE apostle to the Gentiles.

The singular gospel model, whereby some assume that Paul preached the same gospel as did Peter and the others, is ONLY sustainable by employing warped and twisted systems of interpretation that ignore the text for what it says in a systematic and literal approach.

The occultic practice of allegorizing is the nourishment of Mormonism, Christian Science, Jehovah's Witness and all other of the esoteric religions that grossly deviate away from solidity of the core declarations of the biblical texts.

MM

GWH · Dec 31, 2024

Musicmaster said:

Is the following "synthetic gospel kerygma" warped or sufficiently true IYO?

The normative way of stating the Gospel's kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2CR 4:5 & CL 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) when they reject God’s salvation or DOD (JN 3:18).
Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ or the way (means of providing salvation) that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11), although pre-NT truthseekers could/can learn a proto-gospel via general revelation combined with conscience.
Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning God’s Word everyone cooperates fully with His will (RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Dec 31, 2024

Musicmaster said:

Peter actually was the one whom God used to open the door to the gentiles as shown in Acts 10 and by his own words in Acts 15. And he proclaimed the same gospel to them that he did to the Jews because he only knew one gospel and he had no idea he would even be proclaiming it to them, but he did. So Peter admits here to the Jerusalem council that he proclaimed the gospel that they all knew to the gentiles

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Acts 15:7-9

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Dec 31, 2024

Musicmaster said:

The apostle Philip proclaimed the gospel to the Samaritans, who were not Jews, but gentiles. And then Peter and John went there and taught the gospel to them also

Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. Acts 8:5

Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Acts 8:14

And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans. Acts 8:25

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Dec 31, 2024

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

Jesus' instruction to the disciples while the old covenant was still in effect makes it evident that Samaritans were not Israelites or Judeans, yet Peter, Philip and John proclaimed the gospel to them under the new covenant.

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 10:5-6

Musicmaster · Sunday at 7:49 PM

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Notice that Paul did not preach what he had heard from the eleven or any other mortal man, for he already knew what they were preaching, and is the very reason he persecuted the Christians in Jerusalem and the outlying provinces. To him at that time, the Kingdom Gospel was heresy, and worthy of death.

No. What Paul preached unto the Gentiles and Jews alike, and to all new converts outside the churches he planted, is what He had received from the Lord directly, not the Kingdom Gospel preached by other men, which included James and Peter (obviously).

MM

Musicmaster · Monday at 5:08 PM

Those who claim that the eleven apostles of Christ preached the same gospel as was given to Paul by Christ, they better be able to do all these things. Never mind cessationism and continuationism. The -isms most generally fail to consider what scripture actually says. I'm sure some will also talk about the "perfection that is come," but that destroys the idea of the gospels being the same gospel as was preached by Paul.

Mark 16:14-18
14 Afterward he (Jesus) appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Verse 16 was never once instructed by Paul to the Gentiles, but we continue:

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

So, those who believe they are under the gospel preached by the eleven and by Christ, they better be able to do all that Jesus said the believers and followers of that Kingdom Gospel were empowered to do, with never any mention of future diminishing as a convenient way out from the demonstration of those things.

How about it, all the single-gospel people out there. Please show to us videos of you all doing these things. We all would very much like to see it.

MM

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