repeat it as much as needed it needs to be not judt heard but understood. everone has a ministry they work with God in perhaps yours is to remind people of the fear of the Lord
The topic of doctrine
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while this is certainly true, that doesn’t mean that it is right. This is the same thing as “Everyone did that which was right in their own eyes.” Judges 21:25.we are suppose to “conform” ourselves to it, not make it fit us as we want to be. Romans 12:1
And it's the same spirit we have
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. Revelation 4:5
The Spirit of God shall rest upon him, 1) the spirit of wisdom and 2) understanding, the spirit of 3) counsel and 4) strength, the spirit of 5) knowledge and 6) godliness shall fill him; the spirit of 7) the fear of God. He shall not judge according to appearance, nor reprove according to report: Isaiah 11:2-3
Perhaps, it be them not understanding the FEAR definition from Father's view in risen Son Jesus for them. I see the old self in the way too. So I daily die to me and trust God to reveal truth in love and mercy to all through me too
It is the true Love of God that won and wins, thanks to Son as risen for us to abide in God's Holy Spirit given us to stand in
Yes, others will fight and gripe and even want to kill us, thinking they are doing God a favor, not seeing the god that is trying to be God over therm doing evil and using excuses of why, as an excuse
Anyways, it is the Love and mercy of God that won and is proven in his being risen, to me anyways to never die ever again or to do anymore sacrifices to give any more forgiveness that is finished first John 19:30, 2 Cor 5:16-20 time to be reconciled Back to Father and trust Dad for the new life to begin in us and not stop this trust, or let any self work enter in anymore
Eph 1:6,7,13, Phil 1:6
Amazing to me and wow to me in Thanksgiving and praise for me and all others to choose to believe God too
Mark 7: 5 And the Pharisees and the scribes *asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk in accordance with the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with [e]unholy hands?” 6But He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
7‘AND IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.’ 8Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
There's nothing new under the sun.
The only difference being that modern pharisees call their traditions of men "theology"
‘THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
7‘AND IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.’ 8Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
There's nothing new under the sun.
The only difference being that modern pharisees call their traditions of men "theology"
One reason is people reading Paul and removing it from its context in whatever he was saying in his letter to the church which Peter also was writing to….
“Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.”
2 Peter 3:15-18 NIV
“For the law was given through Moses;
grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.”
John 1:17 NIV
“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37 KJV
Notice some people try to remove the things Jesus taught believers about salvation and then replace it with a verse or two from Paul but they miss that he’s actually preaching to people who already accepted and heard the gospel and been baptized in Jesus name for remission in most cases his letters are written to believers of the gospel, believers in Jesus
“ye have not so learned Christ; if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; ( repent of your old course and order )
and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; ( hear and believe the gospel )
and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”( God can set us free and change us and heal us to be as we should be in him )
Ephesians 4:20-24 KJV
If we turn to and hear and believe the gospel where Jesus promises life and salvation to his disciples ever after
Yes even in peters day it was apparently an issue specifically mentioning Paul’s letters as well as other scripture
“Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.”
2 Peter 3:15-16 NIV
If you read for instance the epistle to the church at Rome from beginning to end , you see clearly what Peter was saying .
Paul speaks for a long time on very deep complex spiritual matters he really is explaining a lot of doctrine and using a lot of examples and quoting a lot of Old Testament scripture and making points from those ect and he touches on many points of the gospel really a lot of points he covers thoroughly
but with all of this wonderful writing , and revelation ….comes a lot of words and sentences that can very easily be taken out of the context of one of his long explainations aboit a particular point , and this can then be used to distort what he is actually saying in the explaination
I hope that makes sense . But Paul’s letters really are uniquely wonderful and deep and very uniquely written. Paul was a very articulate writer descriptive and really just talented his writing is done in a unique way that has sort of a dynamic quality to its style he uses proverbs and ot scripture he uses at one point an allegory to get his point across about the two covenants
He uses descriptive imagery and really just dives so in depth into the meaning of things Jesus said and taught in the gospel . He doesn’t change thkngs but he helps us understand some of the more cryptic things Jesus spoke of
This leaves his writing uniquely vulnerable to those who would distort it
this of course is just an opinion of an old fool so lol
Paul was a witness of Jesus lol Peter too John too ect you won’t find disagreement with Jesus and his apostles
There is a book by Jefferson David Tant called “where did they all come from”; you can purchase it online for as little as $3.00. It is an excellent little book documenting the establishment of prominent churches over the last 2000 years and by whom. It starts out something like this: (His are in chronological order, time wise; mine may not be.)
He starts out.with Jesus establishing His church in AD 33. Creed book: the Bible
Catholic Church established in 606. Greggory the 11 first pope. Creed book: The Catechism .
Next, the Lutheran church established 1517 by Martin Luther. Creed book: The Book of Concord
The cChurch of England started by Henry the viii 1534–in America is called the Episcopal church. Creed book: The Apostle’s Creed.
Presbyterian church founded 1536 by John Calvin. Creed book: The Westminster Confession of Faith
The Baptist church was established by Thomas Helwys in England in 1612. Creed book The Baptist Church Manuel.
The Methodist church founded by John Wesley around 1739. Creed book: The Methodist Discipline
Mormon church founded by Joseph Smith in 1830. Creed book: The Book of Mormon
Christian Scientist founded by Mary Baker Eddy in 1875 creed book: Science and Health with Key To The Scriptures
Jehovah Witness founded 1879 by Charles Russel creed book The Incredible Creed of Jehovah Wittnesses
Church of God founded by Richard Spurling in 1886. Creed book: Declaration of faith.
I may have left some out, I apologize if I did. This was not intended to be an exhaustive listing of all denominations but enough to make a point.
Declaration if Faith
Creed of Jehovah Wittnesses…add
Key to the Scriptures…add
Book of Mormon…add
Methodist Discipline…add
Baptist Church Manual…add
Westminster Confession of Faith…add
Apostle’s Creed…add
on the bottom Book of Concord,..then add
Of the stack you. Catachism, then add,,,
Have the …………. …BIBLE……….then you add…
In the Bible, followers of Christ were simply called “Christians”. Acts 11:26. Today, if you tell someone you are a Christian, they usually say “what kind?” Are you a Baptist Christian? A Methodist Christian? All of these religious bodies claim to believe and follow the Bible, but what divides us and them are their HUMAN creeds. You can’t be a Catholic Christian without adhering to the Catachism. And you can’t be a Baptist without agreeing with tge Baptist Manual or a Methodist without the Methodist Discipline. It’s the human creeds that cause all of the division. What if we threw away all of our creed books and just use and follow nothing but the Bible? What if we Get rid of all the denominational names and just call ourselves CHRISTIANS—like those in the Bible did. That’s a tremendous challenge! This arrangement of Denominationalism is not pleasing to God according to John 17. Jesus prayed for unity. He said like you and I have Father—one in everything. Can you imagine Jesus being a Catholic and God the Father a Mormon? Or even one a Baptist and one a Methodist? No, no, a thousand times no. That is not possible with the Bible. Unity can be had or Jesus would not have prayed for it; but it takes changing our “will”?to His, desiring”truth” more than our own ideas, and being humble without any pride. Denominationalism is wrong. It is divisive and contrary to the Bible. Religion is not about us —it’s about God and what HE WANTS. It’s HIS BOOK, He makes the rules and gives the orders; It’s HIS CHURCH, he died for it; He and He ALONE gets to decide the “creed” of faith; He dictates the way the church is organized, HE decides how we get into His church—we don’t have any authority to VOTE people into HIS church. HE hasn’t told us to do that! I know that all people are not going to throw away their denominations but, for those few who want to be simply a Christian, you still can; you don’t have to be part of any denomination to be a Christian.
He starts out.with Jesus establishing His church in AD 33. Creed book: the Bible
Catholic Church established in 606. Greggory the 11 first pope. Creed book: The Catechism .
Next, the Lutheran church established 1517 by Martin Luther. Creed book: The Book of Concord
The cChurch of England started by Henry the viii 1534–in America is called the Episcopal church. Creed book: The Apostle’s Creed.
Presbyterian church founded 1536 by John Calvin. Creed book: The Westminster Confession of Faith
The Baptist church was established by Thomas Helwys in England in 1612. Creed book The Baptist Church Manuel.
The Methodist church founded by John Wesley around 1739. Creed book: The Methodist Discipline
Mormon church founded by Joseph Smith in 1830. Creed book: The Book of Mormon
Christian Scientist founded by Mary Baker Eddy in 1875 creed book: Science and Health with Key To The Scriptures
Jehovah Witness founded 1879 by Charles Russel creed book The Incredible Creed of Jehovah Wittnesses
Church of God founded by Richard Spurling in 1886. Creed book: Declaration of faith.
I may have left some out, I apologize if I did. This was not intended to be an exhaustive listing of all denominations but enough to make a point.
Declaration if Faith
Creed of Jehovah Wittnesses…add
Key to the Scriptures…add
Book of Mormon…add
Methodist Discipline…add
Baptist Church Manual…add
Westminster Confession of Faith…add
Apostle’s Creed…add
on the bottom Book of Concord,..then add
Of the stack you. Catachism, then add,,,
Have the …………. …BIBLE……….then you add…
In the Bible, followers of Christ were simply called “Christians”. Acts 11:26. Today, if you tell someone you are a Christian, they usually say “what kind?” Are you a Baptist Christian? A Methodist Christian? All of these religious bodies claim to believe and follow the Bible, but what divides us and them are their HUMAN creeds. You can’t be a Catholic Christian without adhering to the Catachism. And you can’t be a Baptist without agreeing with tge Baptist Manual or a Methodist without the Methodist Discipline. It’s the human creeds that cause all of the division. What if we threw away all of our creed books and just use and follow nothing but the Bible? What if we Get rid of all the denominational names and just call ourselves CHRISTIANS—like those in the Bible did. That’s a tremendous challenge! This arrangement of Denominationalism is not pleasing to God according to John 17. Jesus prayed for unity. He said like you and I have Father—one in everything. Can you imagine Jesus being a Catholic and God the Father a Mormon? Or even one a Baptist and one a Methodist? No, no, a thousand times no. That is not possible with the Bible. Unity can be had or Jesus would not have prayed for it; but it takes changing our “will”?to His, desiring”truth” more than our own ideas, and being humble without any pride. Denominationalism is wrong. It is divisive and contrary to the Bible. Religion is not about us —it’s about God and what HE WANTS. It’s HIS BOOK, He makes the rules and gives the orders; It’s HIS CHURCH, he died for it; He and He ALONE gets to decide the “creed” of faith; He dictates the way the church is organized, HE decides how we get into His church—we don’t have any authority to VOTE people into HIS church. HE hasn’t told us to do that! I know that all people are not going to throw away their denominations but, for those few who want to be simply a Christian, you still can; you don’t have to be part of any denomination to be a Christian.
K
keepingthingsreal
Guest
Jesus began establishing his church or ekklēsia long before AD 33.
Jesus said He WOULD build it in Matthew 16:18, but in the gospels it is always spoken of in future tense. He told Peter That he would give him the “keys to the kingdom”. Peter is the one who will “open” the door of the kingdom. In Acts 2, at Jerusalem, with Jews from every nation there, Peter preached the first gospel sermon.. tThis was the fulfillment of Luke 24:47 where He told them that “repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in His name to ALL NATIONS BEGINNING AT JERUSALEM.” P eter told them in Acts 2 to “Repent and be baptized FOR THE FORGIVENESS Of SINS. BACK IN Luke Jesus told them to wait in Jerusalem”until you are endured with power from on High. Just before Peter’s sermon, they are all baptized with the Holy Spirit and tongues like fire sat on their heads and they spoke in tongues. Look at the prophecy in Luke; repentance and forgiveness of sins would be preached FIRST ( beginning) at Jerusalem, to ALL NATIONS, in the NANE OF JESUS. And they were to wait there until they were “ensued with POWER from on high.
Now look at Acts 2. They are IN JERUSALEM. They receive the HOLY SPIRIT As the sound of a mighty rushing wind; tongues of fire sat on their heads and they all spoke in tongues. Peter who is to open the door to the kingdom preached the first gospel sermon aND tells them to “”REPENT and be baptized FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, IN THE NAME OF JESUS! IT all fits perfectly together. After 3000 people were baptized, it says in verse 47 that the Lord ADDED TO THE CHURCH daily those who were being saved. This is the first time the church is spoken of as being in existence.
It's the first time regarding Israel after the spirit, but ἐκκλησία (ekklesia), the word for church, is used throughout the LXX OT to refer to Israel after the flesh, and in the NT to refer to Israel in the OT. It's really all one body
This is he [Moses], that was in the church (ἐκκλησία) in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the living oracles to give unto us: Acts 7:38
K
keepingthingsreal
Guest
Jesus said that he would build it upon Peter's following confession,
Mat 16:15
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
and he has been doing just that since long before Peter was ever born.
Mat 16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Seemingly, you do not understand what these keys are or what the type of binding and loosing Jesus spoke of is really all about.
Elsewhere, and along these same lines, Jesus said:
Mat 18:15
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Mat 18:18
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
It is the same principle of that which is bound on earth shall be bound in heaven, and that which is loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven, and it has everything to do with whether or not one meets the prerequisites for reconciliation.
Along these same lines, Jesus said:
Jhn 20:21
Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Jhn 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Jhn 20:23
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
Again, if someone meets the prerequisites for reconciliation, in this case, and in Peter's case, with God, then we can tell them that they are loosed from their sins or that their sins have been remitted. Contrariwise, if they do not meet such prerequisites for reconciliation, then we can tell them that they are still bound in their sins or that their sins are retained. This is what Jesus was talking about, and it will become even more evident in a moment.
I am sorry, but this simply is not true. Granted, Peter could open the door to the kingdom in the manner in which I just explained, but that door was open long before Peter was ever born. For example, Jesus said:
Mat 8:10
When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Mat 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Jesus said that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would be in the kingdom of heaven, and they all lived and died long before Peter was ever born. If Peter alone was given the keys to the kingdom, then how did Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob get in before Peter was ever even born? What you are saying here reeks of Papal authority, and it has no real basis in rightly divided scripture.
I am sorry, but this simply is not true either.
The first gospel proclamation was made in the garden of Eden.
Gen 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Abraham also had the gospel preached unto him.
Gal 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
The children of Israel also had the gospel preached unto them.
Heb 4:2
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
In fact, Paul said that he preached the same gospel message of righteousness by faith that Moses preached to the children of Israel way back in Deuteronomy 30:11-14.
Rom 10:6
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
Rom 10:7
Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead)
Rom 10:8
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
I could just as easily pick apart the rest of your post, not that I take any pleasure in doing so, but I will pause here to see whether or not you recognize that the things you stated which I have already addressed are simply not true.
K
keepingthingsreal
Guest
You are correct in stating that the word ekklesia appears frequently in the LXX, or in the Septuagint, or in the Greek translation of the Old Testament. There, as well as in the Greek of the New Testament, it refers to a called out congregation of people, and as I have been trying to explain to @Beckworth, Christ has been calling out that congregation of people or his church since long before Peter was ever born.
Are you suggesting that someone cannot be forgiven unless he meets the conditions of those who bound that person?
K
keepingthingsreal
Guest
No, not at all. I was talking about the prerequisites of repentance and faith in regard to reconciliation with God through Christ.
If someone is genuinely seeking these, the important things, then God reveals the truth to them as they are able to receive it, but none of us gets there completely in this lifetime. The Bible speaks of this in 1st Corinthians 13:8 through 12. Verse 12 says:
[12] Now we see only a dim likeness of things. It is as if we were seeing them in a foggy mirror. But someday we will see clearly. We will see face to face. What I know now is not complete. But someday I will know completely, just as God knows me completely.
1 Corinthians 13:12 NIrV