Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
Salvation Lost? Really?
- Thread starter Musicmaster
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The door has a lock. Mere profession and head belief are not the key
The door isn't a locking turnstile and the sheepfold isn't a prison or the Hotel California. There are many examples in scripture of sheep being disinherited, and the only way we receive eternal life is through inheritance.
The door isn't a locking turnstile and the sheepfold isn't a prison or the Hotel California. There are many examples in scripture of sheep being disinherited, and the only way we receive eternal life is through inheritance.
A shepherd doesn't throw a sheep out of the gate either as for those scriptures you mentioned care to post them?
In John 10:27-28, we read - My sheep hear My voice, (not some of them hear His voice and some of them don't hear His voice) and I know them, (not some of them He knows and some of them He doesn't know) and they follow Me. (not some of them follow Him and some of them don't follow Him) And I give them eternal life, (not some of them He gives eternal life and some of them He doesn't give eternal life) and they shall never perish; (not some of them will never perish and some of them will perish) neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (not some of them will never be snatched out of His hand and some of them will be snatched out of His hand)
His sheep have eternal security. In CONTRAST with those do not believe and are not His sheep. (John 10:25-26)
His sheep have eternal security. In CONTRAST with those do not believe and are not His sheep. (John 10:25-26)
I just searched does the bible teach you can lose your salvation and this is what I got
No, the Bible does not teach that you can lose your salvation. The Bible's doctrine of eternal security teaches that those who are truly saved will persevere until the end. This is also known as "once saved, always saved" or "the security of the believer
Some reasons why the Bible teaches that you cannot lose your salvation include:
No, the Bible does not teach that you can lose your salvation. The Bible's doctrine of eternal security teaches that those who are truly saved will persevere until the end. This is also known as "once saved, always saved" or "the security of the believer
Some reasons why the Bible teaches that you cannot lose your salvation include:
- You didn't earn it: Salvation is not earned, and it's not earned back.
- God will preserve you: If you have true saving faith, God will preserve you.
- The Good Shepherd searches for the lost: The Good Shepherd will find the lost sheep and bring it home safely.
There are really two doors into the sheepfold, but only one of them leads to life
Go in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are the ones entering in through it. Matthew 7:13
These are examples of the firstborn losing their rightful inheritance, eg, Cain, Ishmael, Esau, Reuben.
The children of Israel were the rightful heirs of the promises, but Jesus said this
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 8:11-12
And Paul said this about the rightful heirs who did not inherit the promisesI say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Romans 9:1-4
? none of that speaks about believers in Christ losing their salvation and the people of the old covanent including the isrialites who rejected the inheritence were not in the covanent we are in paul is speaking about the flesh and and the continuous sorrow is not speaking about losing salvation either he is sorrowful because of the Isrialites who by the law and the flesh are not in the covanant of Christ
Good points. As an Israeli, I was raised in the legalisms of law, and the concept of losing salvation was never an issue. Then I began learning the Southern Baptist religion and fear-mongering of salvational loss. When I first heard that legalistic, fear-mongering concept, with all its constrained paths of moral conduct and adherence to attendance every time the doors were open, tithing requirements, observance of Sabbath requirements, et al, I was totally confused that some legalistic systems are absent teachings for loss of salvation, and others teach it as it it were on almost every other page of the Bible.
After leaving those religions, I went into Messianic Judaism, which was also very legalistic and works-based, with salvational loss a possibility while kissing the huge Torah scroll carried to each of us for our worshipful veneration. Of course, what can one expect from any religion that teaches performance-based salvation, right, which is precisely where salvational loss leads with many willfully blindfolded to that fact.
Then I went into some of the Calvinistic, Reformed religions, finding myself yet again faced with the claims for loss of salvation, which one may expect from any and all works-based salvation systems of thought and belief. Even Roman Catholicism, with all its legalistic, works-based teachings claims one can lose his salvation dare he be guilty of a moral sin and do nothing to renew himself back into the long and laborious process of lessening his time in the false purgatory of that religion's creation, or some other pagan origin, only to still end up with some time remaining in the purging of sins for the vast majority.
No. I came to a point where I had to cry out to the Lord in the midst of the cacophony of so many false teachings assaulting my mind from so many different directions, realizing it was all part of Satan's plan to distract us all from the very word of God and letting it speak for itself. (1 John 2:27)
After reading scripture for what it says, praying that the Lord give to me wisdom, knowledge, His Thoughts and His Ways, the numerous houses of cards I have known for so many years began crashing down, with the works-based systems of salvational loss crumbling with them, along with election and predestination falsely applied to finding salvation freely offered by Christ to all who place their faith in Him, and the inevitable renewal of awe came upon me, which enhanced the glory of the Lord shining in my heart and what He accomplished on that cross for all mankind apart from any and all our efforts and the false teachings that only He can give us the ability to place our faith upon His accomplishment for our salvation through His death, burial and resurrection on the third day. Paul, a fellow Jew, in what he taught, THAT is what I took to heart rather than the salvational teachings of Peter, John, James, et al.
Peter, John, James...those who wrote epistles were writing to their audience, not to every audience. Many things in the NT were not written TO us today, as is evidenced in reading the words of Peter in Acts 2 compared to Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 15. As an Israeli, I am well acquainted with the Lord's changes in His dealings with mankind throughout the ages of man on this earth. The sad reality that so many Westernized Christians refuse to see that fact, well, one can lead a mule to water, but...
Blessings to you and yours.
MM
What do you expect when each person “ rightly divide the word “ when it doesn’t support thier thinking
It is amazing to me how in such short time after the time Christ Jesus walked the earth church leaders like Irenaeus were teaching heresy.
Gods grace
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
Titus 2:11-15 KJV
and then mans grace
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Jude 1:4
which could save someone come this day ?
“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:5-11 KJV
Gods grace teaches us repentance
“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:3
and to live upright lives while we wait for Jesus to return Gods grace that saves is the gospel and it calls us to change our ways because we all have to face the lord for what we’ve said and done
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
ashen grace removes the things the lord said to call us to repentance and upright living it’s not from God and won’t save anyone it just leads them to doom
The new birth accomplished that in my life in an instant. Sanctification is the ongoing process whereby I became stronger in my spiritual stature and understanding of the things of God. All that other stuff...it fell away at the new birth for me.
When you speak of baggage carried through into life after the initial placement of faith in what Christ accomplished for us, and that new birth as an event rather than a process, I'm left wondering of you're talking about people who initiated self-effort to eradicate those things from the side of their lives where habits are entrenched, because the new birth, for me, was an instantaneous change in that moment, so I cannot say that I relate with what you have described.
That's just my take on it in relation to myself rather than saying what you describe is not what others pass through. Trying to analyze all that, making salvation some sort of scientific breakdown of alleged processes that one sectorizes into a compartmentalized soteriology...it's just beyond my personal experience of instantaneous change through the new birth. Many shackles were shattered in my life in that moment, with the attached baggage falling away in an instant.
MM
That all smacks of works-based salvation, which is a rudiment of the Kingdom Gospel, not the Gospel of Grace. If you're saying that changes in one's life to achieve salvation are necessary, then that is works-based, as well as any claim for maintenance as a result of our own efforts; that still makes it works-based. This is the confusion underlying the false mixture of the Kingdom Gospel with the Gospel of Grace, along with replacement theology, which has infiltrated the vast majority of modern, Westernized churchianity.
MM
I am thankful you came to this understanding it makes all the difference in understanding scripture.
Yes that "western" lens is very problematic.
I know in my own culture hyperbolic statements are the norm, is it lying no, it is form of expression which wants to capture a certain richness and depth.
The "western" lens from my experience cannot feel this the same way.
I personally think it is wonderful, it is what I love about my first language.
Excellent point. When we look into those men's lives, we begin to see the influences of Plato, Aristotle, Gnostic and Agnosticism in all the Nicene father's take on scripture.
MM