Salvation Lost? Really?

[Blain]

Every other Christian thinks the same, even Christians in name only

you asked you got your answer

 

[Musicmaster]

you asked you got your answer

I realize you were saying that to someone else, whose messages I don't see because of their being on my ignore list on account of their habitual gravitation toward ad hominem attacks rather than sticking to the topic.

Generally speaking, I do appreciate any and all who avoid the sludge pits of ad hominem. Such a tactic only undermines their own claims.

Thanks for your inputs.

MM

 

[Cranberry]

Good points. As an Israeli, I was raised in the legalisms of law, and the concept of losing salvation was never an issue. Then I began learning the Southern Baptist religion and fear-mongering of salvational loss. When I first heard that legalistic, fear-mongering concept, with all its constrained paths of moral conduct and adherence to attendance every time the doors were open, tithing requirements, observance of Sabbath requirements, et al, I was totally confused that some legalistic systems are absent teachings for loss of salvation, and others teach it as it it were on almost every other page of the Bible.

After leaving those religions, I went into Messianic Judaism, which was also very legalistic and works-based, with salvational loss a possibility while kissing the huge Torah scroll carried to each of us for our worshipful veneration. Of course, what can one expect from any religion that teaches performance-based salvation, right, which is precisely where salvational loss leads with many willfully blindfolded to that fact.

Then I went into some of the Calvinistic, Reformed religions, finding myself yet again faced with the claims for loss of salvation, which one may expect from any and all works-based salvation systems of thought and belief. Even Roman Catholicism, with all its legalistic, works-based teachings claims one can lose his salvation dare he be guilty of a moral sin and do nothing to renew himself back into the long and laborious process of lessening his time in the false purgatory of that religion's creation, or some other pagan origin, only to still end up with some time remaining in the purging of sins for the vast majority.

No. I came to a point where I had to cry out to the Lord in the midst of the cacophony of so many false teachings assaulting my mind from so many different directions, realizing it was all part of Satan's plan to distract us all from the very word of God and letting it speak for itself. (1 John 2:27)

After reading scripture for what it says, praying that the Lord give to me wisdom, knowledge, His Thoughts and His Ways, the numerous houses of cards I have known for so many years began crashing down, with the works-based systems of salvational loss crumbling with them, along with election and predestination falsely applied to finding salvation freely offered by Christ to all who place their faith in Him, and the inevitable renewal of awe came upon me, which enhanced the glory of the Lord shining in my heart and what He accomplished on that cross for all mankind apart from any and all our efforts and the false teachings that only He can give us the ability to place our faith upon His accomplishment for our salvation through His death, burial and resurrection on the third day. Paul, a fellow Jew, in what he taught, THAT is what I took to heart rather than the salvational teachings of Peter, John, James, et al.

Peter, John, James...those who wrote epistles were writing to their audience, not to every audience. Many things in the NT were not written TO us today, as is evidenced in reading the words of Peter in Acts 2 compared to Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 15. As an Israeli, I am well acquainted with the Lord's changes in His dealings with mankind throughout the ages of man on this earth. The sad reality that so many Westernized Christians refuse to see that fact, well, one can lead a mule to water, but...

Blessings to you and yours.

MM

It is a wonder how many who follow Christ are scared ofice for fear of losing eternity with him.

Inducing fear insures control.

Seems a bit contradictory to the Truth and The Word of Life to then say we are free in Christ.

May God bless you and yours as well brother.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Why so few are willing to declare that they too are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, I cannot say. Perhaps the false fear for salvational loss keeps them from realizing that.

Because the holy spirit doesn't bear witness to that through scripture. The gnostics were not constrained by scripture, so they wandered off thinking they were the righteousness of God. To be the righteousness of God means to be perfect. More from Irenaeus:

They further hold that the consummation of all things will take place when all that is spiritual has been formed and perfected by Gnosis (knowledge); and by this they mean spiritual men who have attained to the perfect knowledge of God, and been initiated into these mysteries by Achamoth. And they represent themselves to be these persons.​

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... they run us down (who from the fear of God guard against sinning even in thought or word) as utterly contemptible and ignorant persons, while they highly exalt themselves, and claim to be perfect, and the elect seed.​

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On this account, they tell us that it is necessary for us [Christians] whom they call animal men, and describe as being of the world, to practise continence and good works, that by this means we may attain at length to the intermediate habitation, but that to them who are called "the spiritual and perfect" such a course of conduct is not at all necessary. For it is not conduct of any kind which leads into the Pleroma [heaven], but the seed [of grace] sent forth from there in a feeble, immature state, and here brought to perfection.​

 

[Blain]

I realize you were saying that to someone else, whose messages I don't see because of their being on my ignore list on account of their habitual gravitation toward ad hominem attacks rather than sticking to the topic.

Generally speaking, I do appreciate any and all who avoid the sludge pits of ad hominem. Such a tactic only undermines their own claims.

Thanks for your inputs.

MM

well I could tell the underline meaning in the remark and I don't like tp to see that

 

[Musicmaster]

well I could tell the underline meaning in the remark and I don't like tp to see that

That's generally what spills out from those out there whose doctrinal position is so weak that they have no other avenue upon which to rely than to resort to personal attacks. That's been my experience with them. Keep up the good work.

MM

 

[lrs68]

Those who truly get to know God will never leave God.

 

[Blain]

Those who truly get to know God will never leave God.

how could we? it would take many pages just to describe how wonderful and glorious and vastly deep he is from his kingship to his playful nature this is why I believe in osas because being saved is just the beginning getting to know him makes you fall in love

 

[lrs68]

how could we? it would take many pages just to describe how wonderful and glorious and vastly deep he is from his kingship to his playful nature this is why I believe in osas because being saved is just the beginning getting to know him makes you fall in love

Amen!

To me, the only possible way to lose salvation would be to choose to leave God and purposely live your life opposite of God. But that would mean you never knew who God is. Because those who know God they would never leave Him.

 

[Musicmaster]

how could we? it would take many pages just to describe how wonderful and glorious and vastly deep he is from his kingship to his playful nature this is why I believe in osas because being saved is just the beginning getting to know him makes you fall in love

I like how you put this.

Those who find the fact of "once saved always saved" repugnant, they have nothing else upon which to rely than works-based salvation, which can save nobody today.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Amen!

To me, the only possible way to lose salvation would be to choose to leave God and purposely live your life opposite of God. But that would mean you never knew who God is. Because those who know God they would never leave Him.

That does indeed seem to be the case, because those who claim losses of salvation in others and sometimes in themselves, I have yet to find one who can draw that distinctive line that clearly defines the point of an alleged loss. When asked how they know that person was ever saved in the first place, it's amazing to see how many of them think they have shoved Christ Jesus aside off His Throne in order to make those judgement calls upon others.

MM

 

[homwardbound]

Colossians 1:13

It is done by Son, proven in the resurrection, to me any least, seeing or ever saw new life in the death done first to fulfill Law and prophets that prophesied about Son's coming here and doing what got done by him for us the people to believe it or not
Amazing
Hebrews 7:12-14
And when God sends a new kind of priest, his law must be changed to permit it. As we all know, Christ did not belong to the priest-tribe of Levi, but came from the tribe of Judah, which had not been chosen for priesthood; Moses had never given them that work.
Hebrews 8:6
But Christ, as a Minister in heaven, has been rewarded with a far more important work than those who serve under the old laws because the new agreement that he passes on to us from God contains far more wonderful promises.
Hebrews 8:10
But this is the new agreement I will make with the people of Israel, says the Lord: I will write my laws in their minds so that they will know what I want them to do without my even telling them, and these laws will be in their hearts so that they will want to obey them, and I will be their God and they shall be my people.

The Law of Love as revealed

1 Corinthians 13
If I had the gift of being able to speak in other languages without learning them and could speak in every language there is in all of heaven and earth, but didn’t love others, I would only be making noise. If I had the gift of prophecy and knew all about what is going to happen in the future, knew everything about everything, but didn’t love others, what good would it do? Even if I had the gift of faith so that I could speak to a mountain and make it move, I would still be worth nothing at all without love. If I gave everything I have to poor people, and if I were burned alive for preaching the Gospel but didn’t love others, it would be of no value whatever. ...

I need Love, anyone else

1. 1 Corinthians 13:4
   Love is very patient and kind, never jealous or envious, never boastful or proud,
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. 1 Corinthians 13:5
   never haughty or selfish or rude. Love does not demand its own way. It is not irritable or touchy. It does not hold grudges and will hardly even notice when others do it wrong.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. 1 Corinthians 13:7
   If you love someone, you will be loyal to him no matter what the cost. You will always believe in him, always expect the best of him, and always stand your ground in defending him.

that be Father of the risen Son, That Daddy imputes in those that are sincere in belief to God, That just happens to anyone that is sincere, thanks God

Father knows best

 

[Blain]

I like how you put this.

Those who find the fact of "once saved always saved" repugnant, they have nothing else upon which to rely than works-based salvation, which can save nobody today.

MM

I wonder if people who don't believe in osas have ever fallen in love with God?

 

[Blain]

Amen!

To me, the only possible way to lose salvation would be to choose to leave God and purposely live your life opposite of God. But that would mean you never knew who God is. Because those who know God they would never leave Him.

exactly and if they never knew him of course they would struggle with the idea of not losing your salvation it isn't like knowing another person it is knowing the deepest most beautiful heart there is so if one leaves him or loses their salvation they just left or lost him because well they never had him to begin with

 

[Magenta]

Jesus said there are two, one narrow and one broad. How do you know you are entering by the narrow door?

Jesus did not say there were two doors/gates into the sheepfold.

He said He was the only way. That amounts to one door/gate.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I realize you were saying that to someone else, whose messages I don't see because of their being on my ignore list on account of their habitual gravitation toward ad hominem attacks rather than sticking to the topic.

MM thinks me disagreeing with him and pointing out his lack of spiritual discernment is ad hominem. No, it's really not. That's just an excuse that people who stop their ears from hearing the truth use to justify themselves.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

well I could tell the underline meaning in the remark and I don't like tp to see that

It's true what I said. Have you explored why it makes you uncomfortable?

 

[homwardbound]

There was a time, in my more ignorant past, where I believed that one could lose his salvation. Boy was I wrong, and here's why:

To point at someone, or even at self, and claim one or another had lost his or her salvation at some point in the past, or are standing in that jeopardized position at the present time, that is nothing but works-based salvation!

Some may say, "Now, wait a minute! There are many out there who have lost their salvation. Some have even regained it, and then lost it again..." On and on the claims will go by those who are actually trying to convey the idea that they are authorities over who is saved and who is not, sometimes just by looking at others or at themselves throughout the years of their own past.

What REALLY do they know about anything having to do with salvation if it is a thing that can so easily be lost, which leads to no other conclusion than the idea that Holy Spirit has a very weak grasp upon the saved, with many having been plucked from the Hand of Christ Jesus, which is contradictory to the scriptures.

Think about it...if anyone can lose their salvation, then retention of salvation is by the efforts of each individual rather than the perfectly finished work of Christ Jesus. That individual is claiming, then, that they still have theirs because of their own efforts, where others allegedly lost theirs by not retaining it through good works or abstinence from some measure of sin that has a line they cannot define authoritatively.

Folks, that is indeed BOASTING. That is nothing short of silently claiming that they have "worked" to abstain from walking those paths that others were, or are, walking who have allegedly lost their salvation. Do you see the dichotomy in that? Casting salvation into a mixing bowl that has any leavened ingredient of a work on our part, and the entire lump is leavened.

So, who among you has ever known anyone who allegedly ever lost their salvation, and how did you prove that, even if you're going to make yourself the target of that claim? Your feelings? Their feelings? What you saw coming out of them or yourself? Who among us no longer has any expressions of sin exuding from us each and every day? Who among us is living in sinless perfection? Who among us has no sin?

Who here can draw that line that others can see whereby crossing it would or does lead to loss of salvation?

Conversely, pointing at self or someone else, and claiming loss of salvation at some point in the past, how can we know they or you were ever saved at all in the first place to have allegedly lost it?

It's a snake eating its own proverbial tail.

Do you see the issue here?

It is either works, or it is grace. It cannot be both, for there is no power on this earth that can truly intermix them together under the Gospel of Grace.

MM

brother, you are given the truth, and thank you, just as Jesus said it to Peter, when Peter said to Jesus, "You are the Messiah" Jesus said to him, that was his Father that revealed that to him.
Yet he said to Peter Satan wishes to sift you like wheat, yet I prayed for thy Faith, and when you return, "You will strengthen the brethren"
Peter went through a lot, did he not?
Made many mistakes in his walk, the same as all have and do and all by Son as risen are able now to learn new from the mistakes made, remaining forgiven by God not others.
Wow, thanking Farther daily in this love and mercy of Son given us to learn new from in remaining reconciled as recycled, being recycled in Love and mercy over condemnation that I know I have done and has been done to me too, No more, being thankful to God in risen Son where there is no more condemnation from Romans 8:1. Unfortunately, others there condemning self and others still going on through them is all dung to me now, thanks to God's done work of Son done for us to be new in God's love of 1 Cor 13:4-7 imputed in us by God. That is salvation that cannot be lost, from God's view. God does it, did it, it is finished and given to us by God, once see that, no one can snatch anyone out of God's right hand, the risen Son for them
At least me, thanks for the post

 

[homwardbound]

MM thinks me disagreeing with him and pointing out his lack of spiritual discernment is ad hominem. No, it's really not. That's just an excuse that people who stop their ears from hearing the truth use to justify themselves.

tell me has God gone on vacation and left you in charge to judge people and condemn them unless they agree with you? Just asking thank you

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I wonder if people who don't believe in osas have ever fallen in love with God?

"Fallen in love" is a soulish expression. Those who truly love God do his works and commandments.

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe into him whom he has sent. John 6:29​

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For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 1 John 5:3​

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