The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

[Eli1]

Your refusal to discuss GW (MT 7:5, JN 7:24, 2CR 13:5, 2TM 3:14-17 & 4:1-4) here and now is NOT furthering discussion of this topic, but if you are interested in studying the topic of salvation on the Kerygma thread or of parables on the Hermeneutics thread, I will see you there. :^)

Major, i am here and i am reporting for duty sir!
Okay, let's begin.

MT 7:5.
Are you telling me that you are becoming a Liberal when you hear different points of view?
Please don't tell me so. The reason i discuss these things with you is because you are strong enough to not be a liberal and curl in a ball.
Do you think your humility has anything to do with bringing that verse to a topic where we discuss Heaven?

JN 7:24.
Same thing here major.

2CR 13:5
Go on, tell me how you test yourself that you know that you will be in Heaven.

2TM 3:14-17 .
Go on, tell me what have you learned?

 

[GWH]

Major, i am here and i am reporting for duty sir!
Okay, let's begin.

MT 7:5.
Are you telling me that you are becoming a Liberal when you hear different points of view?
Please don't tell me so. The reason i discuss these things with you is because you are strong enough to not be a liberal and curl in a ball.
Do you think your humility has anything to do with bringing that verse to a topic where we discuss Heaven?

JN 7:24.
Same thing here major.

2CR 13:5
Go on, tell me how you test yourself that you know that you will be in Heaven.

2TM 3:14-17 .
Go on, tell me what have you learned?

MT 7:5 says to take the log out of one's own eye in order to see/discern how to help a brother remove the speck from his eye.

JN 7:24 says to judge/discern correctly/rightly.

2CR 13:5 says to examine oneself, meaning to discern whether one is saved or in the faith or satisfies GRFS.

2TM 3:14-17 indicates that we should learn Scripture in order to be wise for salvation and wisely or rightly encourage, rebuke/correct/remove specks, because some people pervert true doctrine.

 

[Eli1]

MT 7:5 says to take the log out of one's own eye in order to see/discern how to help a brother remove the speck from his eye.

JN 7:24 says to judge/discern correctly/rightly.

2CR 13:5 says to examine oneself, meaning to discern whether one is saved or in the faith or satisfies GRFS.

2TM 3:14-17 indicates that we should learn Scripture in order to be wise for salvation and wisely or rightly encourage, rebuke/correct/remove specks, because some people pervert true doctrine.

Major, why are you giving me NO answers?
Are you shy?

 

[GWH]

Major, why are you giving me NO answers?
Are you shy?

I shared my interpretation of the verses you cited, so if you are asking about how I would apply those teachings, this thread is my main answer, which is to seek agreement regarding the kerygma/GRFS, which I discern includes the following beliefs and which I discern myself to satisfy:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (MT 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18, RM 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (RM 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1CR 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word everyone cooperates fully with His will (JN 14:6, 17&26, RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

How much do you agree/disagree?

 

[Eli1]

How much do you agree/disagree?

There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.

Agreed! No need to include DT 6:4 there though. Also it would be best if you added “There is a/one all-loving and merciful God”

Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (MT 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18, RM 2:5-11).

Partial agreement! But we need to talk more about JN 3:18.

Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (RM 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1CR 15:14-28).

Partial agreement. We need to talk more about JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31.

Also I wouldn’t use the word “payment” because God’s love and mercy to send His son here is not a bank transaction.

Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).

Partial agreement. We need to discuss JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31.

I also like that you added RM 13:9 here.
No need to include PS 113:2.

Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word everyone cooperates fully with His will (JN 14:6, 17&26, RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

Partial agreement. We need to further discuss JN 14:6, EPH 1:13-14.

Major I want to ask you, when are we going to begin to talk about our reward in Heaven?
Because I’m glad to see that you have put together some verses to assure you of a future reward so when would you like to talk about specifics?
Meaning, do you have any more verses to add to your understanding of Heaven or should we start with one of them and then work our way out from there?

Would you like to pick one of the verses I have mentioned that we need to further discuss?

I also wanted to add that this is beginning to look like you need 2 PHDs and 20 years field experience major so it seems like there’s nothing easy about Salvation that can be understood by different ages in different cultures. But we will get to that later.
And have no fear! Because I have 5 PHDs and 50 years field experience so you are talking to the right person!

 

[GWH]

DT 6:4 is included because it is the famous Shema declaring belief in one God.

I try to be succinct, and all-loving is synonymous with merciful God.

JN 3:18 is cited regarding condemnation to hell and JN 3:16 regarding God's love/mercy.

ACTS 16:30-31 states GRFS in a nutshell.

Payment has to do with redemption, which is a transaction, but I will remove it if I cannot find a better verse conveying that idea.

Partial agreement. We need to discuss JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31.

I also like that you added RM 13:9 here.
No need to include PS 113:2.

JN 14:6 was cited to support belief in Jesus as revealer of God, and EPH 1:13-14 to support belief in Jesus as Messiah/Christ.

Regarding our reward in Heaven, as you know I believe the KOG was begun by the ministry/prayer of Jesus and is synonymous with the church or spiritual body of Christ insofar as Christians manifest the fruit of the Holy Spirit. What "specifics" do you want to talk about?

Re more verses about Heaven, I begin by viewing it as Paradise regained forever, but where would you like to start?


Would you like to pick one of the verses I have mentioned that we need to further discuss?

I also wanted to add that this is beginning to look like you need 2 PHDs and 20 years field experience major so it seems like there’s nothing easy about Salvation that can be understood by different ages in different cultures. But we will get to that later.
And have no fear! Because I have 5 PHDs and 50 years field experience so you are talking to the right person!

 

[Eli1]

Good morning major.
I know technology is not your favorite thing but maybe copy the whole post and respond in a new post with your comments in bold or something, so i don't have to dig to find out your answer .
You don't want to sound like this guy: https://youtube.com/shorts/N4i9m7F7mnQ?si=m69UAe0I7BL15XM4

With this being said, should we discuss ACTS 16:30-31 then?
Because with your other responses you're being very flexible as usual and we still haven't begun to talk about our reward in Heaven.

 

[Careym58]

(Jn 3:16) "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
(Lk 13:3) "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.
(Rom 10:8-9) But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
(Jn 3:5) Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
So according to what Jesus told Nicodemus, he needed to be born again. How could that happen?
(Rom 6:1-11)
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be [in the likeness] of [His] resurrection,
knowing this, that our old man was crucified with [Him], that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
For he who has died has been freed from sin.
Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
For [the death] that He died, He died to sin once for all; but [the life] that He lives, He lives to God.
Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[GWH]

Agreed! No need to include DT 6:4 there though. Also it would be best if you added “There is a/one all-loving and merciful God”



Partial agreement! But we need to talk more about JN 3:18.





Partial agreement. We need to talk more about JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31.

Also I wouldn’t use the word “payment” because God’s love and mercy to send His son here is not a bank transaction.



Partial agreement. We need to discuss JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31.

I also like that you added RM 13:9 here.
No need to include PS 113:2.





Partial agreement. We need to further discuss JN 14:6, EPH 1:13-14.

Major I want to ask you, when are we going to begin to talk about our reward in Heaven?
Because I’m glad to see that you have put together some verses to assure you of a future reward so when would you like to talk about specifics?
Meaning, do you have any more verses to add to your understanding of Heaven or should we start with one of them and then work our way out from there?

Would you like to pick one of the verses I have mentioned that we need to further discuss?

I also wanted to add that this is beginning to look like you need 2 PHDs and 20 years field experience major so it seems like there’s nothing easy about Salvation that can be understood by different ages in different cultures. But we will get to that later.
And have no fear! Because I have 5 PHDs and 50 years field experience so you are talking to the right person!

The Bible is written for normal adults who should be capable of understanding and believing the kerygma without any formal education.

 

[Eli1]

All right, should we begin with ACTS 16:30-31 then?
Or maybe ACTS 16:30-31 in combination with another verse that you have in mind?

 

[Careym58]

Gal 1:8-9) But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
According to what Paul stated twice in Galatians, we must not add to or take away from what is written in God's word. So we must examine the scriptures to find all that is written about salvation. Here is I found that leads to our salvation as I find it in scripture.

(Jn 3:16) "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

(Lk 13:3) "I tell you, no; but unless you repentyou will all likewise perish.

(Rom 10:8-9) But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

(Jn 3:5) Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

So according to what Jesus told Nicodemus, he needed to be born again. How could that happen?

(Rom 6:1-11) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be [in the likeness] of [His] resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with [Him], that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For [the death] that He died, He died to sin once for all; but [the life] that He lives, He lives to God.
Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Jesus spoke to Paul on the road to Damascus and Paul was blinded. Jesus told him to go to Damascus and he would be told what he was to become. Do you think Paul believed in Jesus at the point, but was he saved? Ananias told Paul this after Jesus had spoken to him on the road to Damascus.

(Acts 22:16) 'And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'

(Jas 2:19) You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble!

Believing in Jesus Christ is essential, but as we see with the demons, just believing is not enough. We must take all the verses on a topic and add them up, to make sure we have the whole picture, in order to find out how we find our salvation.

We hear the word, we then believe in Jesus Christ, we repent of our sins and from our past ways, we confess that Jesus is the Son of God before men, and then we are baptized, we are immersed, we are buried with Him in the watery grave of baptism so that we die to our sins, which that burial is a likeness of His death, then as He was resurrected, we rise up out of that watery grave to walk in newness of life., just as Jesus told Nicodemus, we are now born again.

 

[GWH]

(Jn 3:16) "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
(Lk 13:3) "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.
(Rom 10:8-9) But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
(Jn 3:5) Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
So according to what Jesus told Nicodemus, he needed to be born again. How could that happen?
(Rom 6:1-11)
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be [in the likeness] of [His] resurrection,
knowing this, that our old man was crucified with [Him], that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
For he who has died has been freed from sin.
Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
For [the death] that He died, He died to sin once for all; but [the life] that He lives, He lives to God.
Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

All good quotes relevant for answering the most important question in life. :^)

 

[GWH]

All right, should we begin with ACTS 16:30-31 then?
Or maybe ACTS 16:30-31 in combination with another verse that you have in mind?

You go first so I can see what you have in mind.

 

[Eli1]

All right let's go with ACTs 16:30-31.

"Then he brought them outside and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They answered, “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household"

The summary here is that if we Believe in Jesus Christ we will go to Heaven.

First, question: After i do this, then what do i do? Watch TV? Rob the neighbor? What's next?
Because i got my reward.

 

[GWH]

All right let's go with ACTs 16:30-31.

"Then he brought them outside and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They answered, “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household"

The summary here is that if we Believe in Jesus Christ we will go to Heaven.

First, question: After i do this, then what do i do? Watch TV? Rob the neighbor? What's next?
Because i got my reward.

If you want my answer, it follows the third statement in the elaborated kerygma:

3. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).

4. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word everyone cooperates fully with His will (JN 14:6, 17&26, RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

Although perfection is not achieved in this life, the necessity of learning the didache in order to strive for perfection indicates the need for perseverance or to keep on learning and growing spiritually until we die physically. Thus, although learning any specific part of the didache is not GRFS, a person who does not “hunger and thirst for righteousness” (MT 5:6) or want to learn “every word that comes from the mouth of God” (MT 4:4) fails the self-examination Paul commanded and Jesus implied (mentioned previously).

If we truly believe in Jesus as Christ, the One who represents God the Father, then we will also accept Him as Lord (LK 2:11) or God the Son (MT 16:16) or God in the human dimension (CL 2:9). When we truly accept Jesus as Lord, we will want to please Him by doing His will (MT 7:21, EPH 5:8-10). Learning the manifold teachings or doctrines describing God’s moral will takes a lifetime. Thus, the need for perseverance/loyalty/remaining faithful, which is as easy or simple as an act of will. Remain faithful until the end.

Paul taught the importance of continuing to learn God’s Word (LGW) in 2TM 3:14-17, saying “Continue in what you have learned and have been convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

 

[Eli1]

All right major this second edition looks a little better and it looks like you’ve applied a couple of PHDs here.
Good job!

I’m sure someone in Somalia will understand this perfectly the first time, especially words like “ditache” or “kerygma” or your many acronyms.

I have to say major that when you speak like this, I feel like I’m talking to a robot but then I realize that you were in the army, so your lovable style is what I like about you.

So, I asked you a question about ACTS and now you send me something which did NOT answer my question. You instead send me an answer like ChatGTP which includes a bunch of stuff, plus the ACTS 16:31, for which I asked you a specific follow up question.
So as a response you give me ACTS 16:31 again.

So, how can we communicate like this major? I say grab a coffee and try again?

 

[GWH]

All right major this second edition looks a little better and it looks like you’ve applied a couple of PHDs here.
Good job!

I’m sure someone in Somalia will understand this perfectly the first time, especially words like “ditache” or “kerygma” or your many acronyms.

I have to say major that when you speak like this, I feel like I’m talking to a robot but then I realize that you were in the army, so your lovable style is what I like about you.

So, I asked you a question about ACTS and now you send me something which did NOT answer my question. You instead send me an answer like ChatGTP which includes a bunch of stuff, plus the ACTS 16:31, for which I asked you a specific follow up question.
So as a response you give me ACTS 16:31 again.

So, how can we communicate like this major? I say grab a coffee and try again?

You asked, "After i do this, then what do i do?" and I answered with what GW says to do and I even put the gist of it in bold type for you, so I have no idea what you are complaining about.

 

[Eli1]

You asked, "After i do this, then what do i do?" and I answered with what GW says to do and I even put the gist of it in bold type for you, so I have no idea what you are complaining about.

But why are you giving me ACTS 16:31 as a response when i asked you a question about ACTS 16:31?
This is almost like a robot not processing the question.

 

[GWH]

But why are you giving me ACTS 16:31 as a response when i asked you a question about ACTS 16:31?
This is almost like a robot not processing the question.

Again you come across as trolling rather than seeking to communicate, because I quoted your question and reiterated my answer, but you are not processing: You asked, "After i do this, then what do i do?" and I answered with what GW says to do and I even put the gist of it in bold type for you, so I have no idea what you are complaining about.

 

[Eli1]

Again you come across as trolling rather than seeking to communicate, because I quoted your question and reiterated my answer, but you are not processing: You asked, "After i do this, then what do i do?" and I answered with what GW says to do and I even put the gist of it in bold type for you, so I have no idea what you are complaining about.

This is your complete lack of self-awareness as usual and we can also add some cultural differences to the mix because you seem oblivious to the fact that you can't give me the same answer when i ask you a specific question about that topic, which is ACTS.
This means that you should have EXCLUDED ACTS in your response.
But because you're COPY/PASTING, you're not processing any normal flow in the dialogue.