Are giants the offspring of angels and humans?

Hakawaka · Thursday at 8:14 AM

I have always believed this to be the case.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

However I have come to doubt this theory now as i've actually read the book of Enoch and it contradicts the Bible in some details, not to mention just doesn't "sound right" Doesn't sound like its from the spirit of God. I can discern that its not. You may disagree thats fine but that is where we must agree to disagree.

Jesus says: Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

How could angels coming down and fornicating with women work if this is the case?

Is there any credible alternative explanation? In the OT, "sons of God" most often means angels, doesn't it?

Help a brother out here.

Blain · Thursday at 11:02 AM

Well when God made creation the only humans or human like beings were humans and that means he either created giants or angels are capable of producing especially if they are able to take human form. one could argue they are offspring of cavemen I suppose but even then cavemen were not massive like giants they were bigger but not that big

keepingthingsreal · Thursday at 11:50 AM

Hakawaka said:

First of all, I have also read what purports to be the book of Enoch, and I have similarly discerned that it is not from the Spirit of God. That said, there very well may have been a Holy Spirit inspired book of Enoch sometime in the past, but what we have today is not it (imo).

As to your angels question, notice what Jesus said in the passage of scripture that you quoted.

Mat 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

The answer to your question might be found in the "in heaven" part.

In other words, contrast that with what was said here:

Jde 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

There are angels of God in heaven, and there are also angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation. The latter have been reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Peter gives us a little more information about this latter group of angels.

2Pe 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

How did these angels sin, and what does it mean that they kept not their first estate (beginning, commencement, principality), but left their own habitation?

Is it possible that they sinned by leaving heaven in order to procreate with the daughters of men here on earth?

Personally, that is what I believe. In any case, this is a specific set of angels who are being held in chains, and it does not pertain to all fallen angels, of which Satan is one himself.

Hakawaka · Thursday at 12:16 PM

keepingthingsreal said:

First of all, I have also read what purports to be the book of Enoch, and I have similarly discerned that it is not from the Spirit of God. That said, there very well may have been a Holy Spirit inspired book of Enoch sometime in the past, but what we have today is not it (imo).

As to your angels question, notice what Jesus said in the passage of scripture that you quoted.

Mat 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

The answer to your question might be found in the "in heaven" part.

In other words, contrast that with what was said here:

Jde 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

There are angels of God in heaven, and there are also angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation. The latter have been reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Peter gives us a little more information about this latter group of angels.

2Pe 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

How did these angels sin, and what does it mean that they kept not their first estate (beginning, commencement, principality), but left their own habitation?

Is it possible that they sinned by leaving heaven in order to procreate with the daughters of men here on earth?

Personally, that is what I believe. In any case, this is a specific set of angels who are being held in chains, and it does not pertain to all fallen angels, of which Satan is one himself.

Couldn't Jude 1:6 and 2 Peter 2:4 be talking about the third of the angels that rebelled with satan? Rev12?

stilllearning · Thursday at 12:25 PM

Hakawaka said:

Sons of God is direct vs indirect. For example we can look at the genealogy of Christ, the last verse at least.

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Angels as well as Adam were direct creations by God where we are reproductions of Adam, we are sons of man or sons of Adam.
So Adam is directly and we indirectly because we come of Adam. Why when we are born again we are sons of God because it is a direct act by God.

One of the arguments I will hear that angels are not the sons of God is in Hebrews.

Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

I don't find at all that is what this scripture is saying. I find you have to look at the historical time and culture of the Jews. During the Hellenistic period and the later 2 temple period, some Jews were seeing evidence of two divine beings when they read the scriptures. The two powers in heaven.

So interesting enough this is what was going on in the days of Christ and the culture. Which Christ actually acknowledge when he asked who do men say I am. They of course answered thusly.

Matthew 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

So knowing this when we read Hebrews we see that a case is being made for who Christ is vs who Jews at that time thought he might be. Some believed he could be the Metatron. Which in Greek means after throne. So they were seeing that of these two powers in heaven. One was behind the throne operating or was in the throne next to the throne operating.

Some believed that this Metatron was Enoch that when God raptured him he Enoch became an angel and was operating as this Metatron. As well as other Jews thought that this second power could be a esteemed angel.

So anyway who do men say I am was a legitimate question. Which to me Hebrews answers who Christ is and was directed at Jews. So anyway Hebrews 1: 1-2 says, God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

The case being made here is Christ is better than the prophets. Then in verse 4 we see that the writer also begins to make the case Christ is better than the angels.

Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

So anyway the book of Hebrews is about how Christ is better he is more he is God. So I don't find at all that Hebrews 1:5 is a argument that angels are not the sons of God. However, rather Christ is better than the angels.

Magenta · Thursday at 12:36 PM

Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every
inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time. And the LORD regretted
that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, “I will
blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—every man and beast and crawling
creature and bird of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.” Genesis 6:5-7

God established that each kind reproduces only after its own kind (Genesis 1:11-12, 21, 24-25).

Dino246 · Thursday at 12:43 PM

Hakawaka said:

A few thoughts…

Sons of God and angels aren’t necessarily the same thing (so all the restrictions on angels are irrelevant). “Angel” is a role, not a species.

Just because angels don’t marry in heaven doesn’t mean they can’t, nor that they are physically unable to reproduce with humans.

The most common alternative interpretation is that the “sons of God” were descended from Seth while the “daughters of men” were descended from Cain. This fails miserably to explain the existence of giants.

Greek, Roman, and pagan mythology is surprisingly consistent with the idea of “divine” beings procreating with humans. Perhaps it isn’t so mythical.

keepingthingsreal · Thursday at 12:43 PM

Hakawaka said:

No, they could not be. How can we (not just I) be certain of this? Here is how:

Rev 12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

This war in heaven has not taken place yet. When it does take place, it will be the fulfillment of what the prophet Daniel prophesied here:

Dan 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

In other words, this war in heaven will usher in the great tribulation which will last for a time, and times, and half a time (Rev. 12:14) or for 3 1/2 years. If these angels were already bound in chains unto the day of judgment, then they would not be partakers in this yet-future heavenly war. Furthermore, we have portions of scripture like this one to consider:

Eph 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Our fight, as Christians, is against spiritual wickedness in high places or in heavenly places. The Greek word epouranios, which is here translated as high, appears 19 other times in the New Testament. 16 of those times, it is translated as heavenly. 2 of those times, it is translated as celestial. 1 of those times, it is translated as in heaven.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2032/kjv/tr/0-1/

In other words, most fallen angels still have access to the heavenly realms (there are three heavens in scripture - 2 Cor. 12:2). Again, it is only a select group of angels who are presently being held in chains unto the day of judgment, and they are those who sinned by leaving their first estate, and/or their own habitation. Seeing how their first estate and/or their own habitation was originally heaven, where could they have possibly gone but to earth in their sin?

homwardbound · Thursday at 12:55 PM

Magenta said:

I see, this as God wiping out the Nephilim, that did not get completely wiped out how?
by the DNA in the women Noah's Son's married
Is what I see as why God on Gen 6 said and these continued afterwards.
Just my thought.
However this getting done was to save man/woman and put all lineage in the First Adam, Noah in the lineage of Seth, Adam
God is always good, always has been always will be to me I see to stand in trust to God only not even me myself either in any thought of
Taking all thought to the obedience of Jesus, thanks. Still daily learning this truth

lrs68 · Thursday at 12:55 PM

Read the Hebrew Torah and ignore the English translation.

homwardbound · Thursday at 1:06 PM

lrs68 said:

Really, okay, taking it all to Father to always from Father hear truth over error, as there are many errors of interpretations here in this world still
God is Love and this love goes on forever for us to see and be new in it, given to us to do and not of the self ever again thank you
Putting no trust in self. Phil 3

Magenta · Thursday at 1:07 PM

Dino246 said:

Giants have lived into modern times... so are demons still reproducing with human women? Or is there some other explanation? It seems to me there are a great many mutations in the genetic makeup of mankind, none of which require demons reproducing with humans as the only viable explanation.

lrs68 · Thursday at 1:10 PM

homwardbound said:

Just saying the English is supposed to be a translation of the Hebrew that existed before the English language existed. But the English translation doesn't actually say the exact same thing as the Hebrew does.

Aaron56 · Thursday at 1:22 PM

No. The giants were men of renown.

The tale that angels can procreate with demons leads into assertions that "the DNA of man is being corrupted by demons and preventing men from being saved!" This is a fairy tale. In the kingdom of God the flesh has no value.

Dino246 · Thursday at 1:27 PM

Magenta said:

I agree, though again that doesn’t explain why the Israelites went to great lengths to annihilate the giants… at God’s direction.

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Thursday at 1:32 PM

To which of the angels did God at any time call his sons?

Why would angels have a wiener?

Aaron56 · Thursday at 1:33 PM

Dino246 said:

One reason: the seed of promise does not mix with the seed of flesh. Considering that the sons of God were priests like Melchizedek, as the administers of the covenant of promise, laying with women bereft of those promises would have produced children of the flesh. We see this principle with Abraham and Ishmael: even though Ishmael was the 1st born, he could not inherit the estate of his father. He remained a slave as did all of his offspring.

lrs68 · Thursday at 1:34 PM

God told Satan I would put emnity between the SEED of Satan and the seed of the woman. The SEED of Satan is Genesis 6. The Hebrew version is correct over the mistranslated English.

Magenta · Thursday at 1:34 PM

Dino246 said:

They were the enemies of God, same as Canaanites, Amorites, Girgashites, Hittites, Hivites, Jebusites,
Perizzites, Moabites, of whom God said, "You must devote them to complete destruction. Make no
treaty with them and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters
to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, because they will turn your sons away from following
Me to serve other gods. Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and He will swiftly destroy you."
The wisest man in the world fell prey to idolatry due to his wives...

ResidentAlien · Thursday at 2:02 PM

I see no real reason to think the "sons of God" were angels of any kind. The text seems pretty self-explanatory: When men and women began to multiply on the earth, the men took wives for themselves. They had children, some of whom were the Nephilim. It's unfortunate that this word has been understood by so many to mean "giants." The true meaning of Nephilim remains a matter of speculation. A better translation, seems to me, would be those who were powerful and wicked; the text seems to bear this out. It describes them as "mighty men" and "men of renown." Then beginning in Genesis 6:5 it says that the wickedness of man was great and every intent of his heart was evil continually. I'm sure the Nephilim had something to do with this.

Are giants the offspring of angels and humans?

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