Are giants the offspring of angels and humans?
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Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 38:4
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
In all of these verses, the sons of God are angels.
Not only are all angels in scripture males, but angels have also appeared in the likeness of men in scripture. Do men have weiners? If you hiked up an angel's robe (or whatever he was wearing), what would you expect to find? Something that resembles a Ken doll?
He didn't just say that!
Oh yes, I did.
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 38:4
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
In all of these verses, the sons of God are angels.
Not only are all angels in scripture males, but angels have also appeared in the likeness of men in scripture. Do men have weiners? If you hiked up an angel's robe (or whatever he was wearing), what would you expect to find? Something that resembles a Ken doll?
He didn't just say that!
Oh yes, I did.
I think Genesis 6 records the occurrence of some very strange things.
I think that if you look at Genesis 6 and conclude, "Nothing strange here", that is a hard position to defend. Many fine Christian people hold that position, that nothing strange is going on. However, if we really dig deeply into that passage, and supporting passages, I think it becomes a very hard position to defend, and it's a position which, ultimately, relies on what I feel are very weak arguments.
I would refer people to works by Dr. Michael Heiser, an extremely well respected scholar of ancient Hebrew, and one of the top scholars in the field before he went home to be with the Lord.
I think this is all I'll add to this thread.
I have good Christian friends on both sides of this, and it's not the most important issue for debate.
: )
God Bless
.
I think that if you look at Genesis 6 and conclude, "Nothing strange here", that is a hard position to defend. Many fine Christian people hold that position, that nothing strange is going on. However, if we really dig deeply into that passage, and supporting passages, I think it becomes a very hard position to defend, and it's a position which, ultimately, relies on what I feel are very weak arguments.
I would refer people to works by Dr. Michael Heiser, an extremely well respected scholar of ancient Hebrew, and one of the top scholars in the field before he went home to be with the Lord.
I think this is all I'll add to this thread.
I have good Christian friends on both sides of this, and it's not the most important issue for debate.
: )
God Bless
.
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He does not consider it inspired.
He does however consider it an insightful historical book, that informs us about Jewish thought and culture of the 2nd temple period.
(This is the traditional Protestant view.)
Also, I don't necessarily agree with all of his views on everything... but he's a very serious scholar, and his works have greatly influenced current Christian scholarship on these issues.
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He does however consider it an insightful historical book, that informs us about Jewish thought and culture of the 2nd temple period.
(This is the traditional Protestant view.)
Also, I don't necessarily agree with all of his views on everything... but he's a very serious scholar, and his works have greatly influenced current Christian scholarship on these issues.
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Thank you maxwel... I did look him up but I could not find a definitive answer to that question, although I did see he had a lot of material talking about Enoch, which is part of why I wondered... that, and some do accept Enoch as inspired, and among those that do, it's probably a high percentage that believe the angels' theory...
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“In the OT, "sons of God" most often means angels, doesn't it?”
Never does it refer to angels as the sons of God but mankind it does
“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
Luke 3:38 KJV
think of all he created in genesis man is the only ones created in his image and likeness
“Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.”
Acts 17:29 KJV
“And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:”
Exodus 4:22
notice here the children of God were partakers of flesh and blood and so the messiah partook of flesh and blood and not the nature of angels but men because they are the children
“( the son ) being made so much better than the angels and hath by inheritance a better name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, And his ministers a flame of fire.
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?”
Hebrews 1:4-7, 13-14 KJV
“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.”
Hebrews 2:14-17
angels aren’t the children of God they are his spiritual ministers sent to minister to the hiers of salvation , the seed of Abraham ( who are men not angels )
Notice also how the giants mentioned are “ mighty men of renown “ the giant reference seems to be rhetorical ( just my opinion tbough )
I. E. “ Elvis is a giant in tbe music industry , a man of great accomplishment and renown “
“There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”
Genesis 6:4 KJV
just a thought bit the bible pretty clear talks about angels not bieng Gods children but rather mankind is reserved for that place in creation early in scriptire it’s the ones calling on the name of the lord just like it is now days
Never does it refer to angels as the sons of God but mankind it does
“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
Luke 3:38 KJV
think of all he created in genesis man is the only ones created in his image and likeness
“Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.”
Acts 17:29 KJV
“And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:”
Exodus 4:22
notice here the children of God were partakers of flesh and blood and so the messiah partook of flesh and blood and not the nature of angels but men because they are the children
“( the son ) being made so much better than the angels and hath by inheritance a better name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, And his ministers a flame of fire.
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?”
Hebrews 1:4-7, 13-14 KJV
“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.”
Hebrews 2:14-17
angels aren’t the children of God they are his spiritual ministers sent to minister to the hiers of salvation , the seed of Abraham ( who are men not angels )
Notice also how the giants mentioned are “ mighty men of renown “ the giant reference seems to be rhetorical ( just my opinion tbough )
I. E. “ Elvis is a giant in tbe music industry , a man of great accomplishment and renown “
“There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”
Genesis 6:4 KJV
just a thought bit the bible pretty clear talks about angels not bieng Gods children but rather mankind is reserved for that place in creation early in scriptire it’s the ones calling on the name of the lord just like it is now days
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The book of Hebrews makes it clear that at no time has the Lord called an angel, son.
See Heb 1, and in Mt 22: 30, Jesus said:
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
I suspect that Adam and Eve had male children before they ate of the forbidden fruit, who were therefore not subject to the consequences of the fall as Adam, Eve, and their children after that event were. With whom, Eve did not suffer labor pains as she did afterwards. They would have, therefore, been indwelt by the Holy Spirit too as Adam and Eve were originally.
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