I would say you do the same thing and I point out Scriptures and you never acknowledge them... and then you come back with all these other Scriptures as if they contradict what I have given... like to some it has been given and to others it is not given... so I don't know where your problem really is ... it's not with me it's with what Scripture says. And besides all that I don't know whose opinion or understanding you think I'm supposed to be giving because I'm only telling you mine I'm not telling you anybody else's. And also it is my belief that a lot of people don't understand the natural man at all... and you have basically told me you ignore him ... maybe you've been a believer most of your life and you have little understanding of the natural man but that is not my experience... I lived as a natural man until I was almost 50 years old ... I have a very good understanding of who that person is as it is laid out in Scripture. And Scripture very explicitly says he cannot know or receive or understand the spiritual things of God.
Tasted Death for every Man !
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He’s talking to his israelite disciples …. the remnant of this group under the curse for breaking thier covenant before he died and sent the gospel to all people ……but we’ve already been in these circles sis .
before he died he was speaking to these folks sis
“These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Matthew 10:5-6 KJV
he things you always are quoting about only him drawing a chosen few is before he died about the remnant who were foretold to accept him from among isreel o he made blind because tbey broke thier covenant law …. It’s just a circle sis .
You can’t seem to add this thought about after Jesus had died for sin and rose up …which sort of stops what I’m trying saying to you at that point. How does this impact your thinking ?
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”
John 12:32-33
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
Look how they would be made blind but gentiles would hear …..you’re trying to reckon everyone was blinded and made deaf with israel but it was part of thier cirse for idol worship according to what’s written in the law ……
“And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, saying, Go unto this people, ( the Jews ) and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; And seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes have they closed; ( not always blind but they closed tbier eyes ) Lest they should see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And should be converted, And I should heal them.
( this is a prophecy about Israel because they co tinier to rebel and worship idols and reject his word )
Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.”
Acts 28:25-29 KJV
You keep saying “ the natural man “ and “ spiritual man “ but we aren’t defining those terms the same at all your reading some of the same verses i recognize but we aren’t seeing them the same way terms like found here
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV
Im not really sure we’re understanding what that actually means the same
But if we have to already be “ spiritual “ or we can’t accept this it makes no sense sister this is how we become “spiritual “
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
John 3:3, 5-6 KJV
Your position is we have to already be spiritual before we can hear this or believer or anything ?
My position is that we’re all natural people ……and hearing the gospel and believing is what begats being born of the spirit …..
natural people can hear the gospel otherwise what do they need to be born of the spirit for ?
“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
Acts 10:43-44 KJV
Now they’ve received Jesus promise of the spirit and can now follow the spirit ….and not the flesh. But they weren’t already spiritual they had to hear the gospel and believe …..
before he died he was speaking to these folks sis
“These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Matthew 10:5-6 KJV
he things you always are quoting about only him drawing a chosen few is before he died about the remnant who were foretold to accept him from among isreel o he made blind because tbey broke thier covenant law …. It’s just a circle sis .
You can’t seem to add this thought about after Jesus had died for sin and rose up …which sort of stops what I’m trying saying to you at that point. How does this impact your thinking ?
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”
John 12:32-33
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
Look how they would be made blind but gentiles would hear …..you’re trying to reckon everyone was blinded and made deaf with israel but it was part of thier cirse for idol worship according to what’s written in the law ……
“And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, saying, Go unto this people, ( the Jews ) and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; And seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes have they closed; ( not always blind but they closed tbier eyes ) Lest they should see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And should be converted, And I should heal them.
( this is a prophecy about Israel because they co tinier to rebel and worship idols and reject his word )
Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.”
Acts 28:25-29 KJV
You keep saying “ the natural man “ and “ spiritual man “ but we aren’t defining those terms the same at all your reading some of the same verses i recognize but we aren’t seeing them the same way terms like found here
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV
Im not really sure we’re understanding what that actually means the same
But if we have to already be “ spiritual “ or we can’t accept this it makes no sense sister this is how we become “spiritual “
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
John 3:3, 5-6 KJV
Your position is we have to already be spiritual before we can hear this or believer or anything ?
My position is that we’re all natural people ……and hearing the gospel and believing is what begats being born of the spirit …..
natural people can hear the gospel otherwise what do they need to be born of the spirit for ?
“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
Acts 10:43-44 KJV
Now they’ve received Jesus promise of the spirit and can now follow the spirit ….and not the flesh. But they weren’t already spiritual they had to hear the gospel and believe …..
Jesus' words in Matthew 13:11-13 (Mark 4:11-12; Luke 8:10) Prophecy of Isaiah 6:9 Fulfilled ~
The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: ‘Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’
@Pilgrimshope Thank you for the inspiration .
The Captain of our Salvation !
The every man in Heb 2:9 who Jesus tasted death for, are the same by His taste of death in Vs 10 became to them and them only, the Captain of their Salvation !
Heb 2:9-10
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings[His Death].
To be the Captain of their Salvation also describes the fact that He was and is 100% responsible for their Salvation. God made it His responsibility to save them and consequently bring them to Glory.
This coincides with Jesus words in Jn 17:2
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
It also fulfills what Isaiah wrote Isa 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
The government of the Salvation of His People is upon His shoulders !
This speaks of His Spiritual rule, prince hood. In fact that word Captain in Heb 2:10 also means Prince Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
So His tasting Death was for the Salvation of His People, you cant separate His Death from Salvation !
The every man in Heb 2:9 who Jesus tasted death for, are the same by His taste of death in Vs 10 became to them and them only, the Captain of their Salvation !
Heb 2:9-10
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings[His Death].
To be the Captain of their Salvation also describes the fact that He was and is 100% responsible for their Salvation. God made it His responsibility to save them and consequently bring them to Glory.
This coincides with Jesus words in Jn 17:2
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
It also fulfills what Isaiah wrote Isa 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
The government of the Salvation of His People is upon His shoulders !
This speaks of His Spiritual rule, prince hood. In fact that word Captain in Heb 2:10 also means Prince Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
So His tasting Death was for the Salvation of His People, you cant separate His Death from Salvation !