God had given us a commandment the Tithes & Offerings. How people today followed the commandment?
- Thread starter Godsgood
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Actually the New Testament Church sold everything and then gave it away. Following Abraham's lead also mentioned in the New Testament Book of Hebrews of 10% seems rather a great deal compared to giving everything away.
________________________________________________
Peter's Jewish church of the Jews never had anything to do with Gentiles in its history. They were always Jews under the law and only believed Jesus was God incarnate. They never had anything to do with The Body of Christ and never received the indwelling Spirit of God. Gentile Christianity did not exist until the second century. There are no Gentile “Christians” in the Bible nor is there any mention of Gentile Christianity anywhere in the Bible. Applying anything from Peter’s Jewish church to the Body of Christ is not biblical truth.
________________________________________________
Peter's Jewish church of the Jews never had anything to do with Gentiles in its history. They were always Jews under the law and only believed Jesus was God incarnate. They never had anything to do with The Body of Christ and never received the indwelling Spirit of God. Gentile Christianity did not exist until the second century. There are no Gentile “Christians” in the Bible nor is there any mention of Gentile Christianity anywhere in the Bible. Applying anything from Peter’s Jewish church to the Body of Christ is not biblical truth.
No, you. Find a verse in God's new gospel to man in the new Age of Grace that commands or instructs the Gentile Body of Christ to give money to God.
Tithing is not taught in the New Testament gospel because we are no longer under that Old Testament law of the Jews. BUT, we ARE commanded to give into a “church collection” on the first day of the week AS WE HAVE BEEN PROSPERED. 1 Cor. 16:1-2. Paul says what he taught in the letter to the Corinthians, He taught in ALL THE CHURCHES. The same thing in all the churches. 4:17. Also, He says what he taught in this letter “are the commandments of God. 14:37. This is the new law of Christ.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:38-39
Are you talking to me or a different poster??
________________________________________________
...or disciple, evangelize, church, water baptize, or worship. All were done away when God sent the world in an entirely new direction with His gift of the indwelling Spirit. We no longer have a law or a Jesus in a Bible. We have God’s Spirit, the same Spirit that was Jesus the same Spirit that is Christ in us and we are the temple of the Holy Spirit and the children of God.
________________________________________________
...or disciple, evangelize, church, water baptize, or worship. All were done away when God sent the world in an entirely new direction with His gift of the indwelling Spirit. We no longer have a law or a Jesus in a Bible. We have God’s Spirit, the same Spirit that was Jesus the same Spirit that is Christ in us and we are the temple of the Holy Spirit and the children of God.
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, Acts 10:1
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the word. Acts 10:44
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Spirit as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. Acts 10:47-48
______________________________
... And when did that happen? and who were those people? and when did God give the gift of His Spirit. The Apostle Paul and the Body of Christ did not exist until Acts 9. Until then, it was the Jews in the old era under the law, Acts 1-9. Nothing in these earlier chapters mentioned or applied to the Gentiles. Your verse applies to the Jews under the law before the Age of Grace and God's gift of His Spirit to us and does not apply at all to the Body of Christ, or Gentile Christianity.
Peter was always in the old era and never in the new era nor did he ever have the indwelling Spirit of God. He never spoke of the indwelling Spirit, God's Grace, salvation of the Gentiles, or God's adoption of the Gentiles. Had Peter the indwelling Spirit, what he wrote would have sounded like Paul's epistles. Peter always wrote to the Jews, for the Jews, about the Jews under the law, never the Gentiles, All the Jews remained Jews and water baptism was a purely Jewish ritual replaced by the spiritual baptism of God's Spirit. The interplay between Peter and Cornelius had a point when Peter, James, Paul, Barnabas and others gathered at the Temple to decide the fate of the Gentiles associated with Paul.
As mentioned earlier in this blog, the Jews of Peter's only Jewish church gave all for the common good and awaited for Christ's return, ....which did not happen. These Jews in the early chapters of Acts soon ran out of resources and fell into poverty. Paul took a collection for these Jewish "saints."
This is neither a command nor instruction for all people of all time to give money to God and does not apply to all members of the Body of Christ throughout time, nor does it have anything to do with Gentile Christianity.
Can you provide another verse? No such verse exists in the Bible.
I suggest you read the context more thoroughly. In 1 Corinthians 16, Paul was talking about a collection for the believers in Jerusalem, who were enduring a famine at that time (See Acts 11:28). He also taught that he himself was not asking for support, though he could. I have yet to come across a traveling preacher who does not ask for financial support.
It isn't sound exegesis to take local-specific instructions (chapter 16) and lump them in with general teaching (14:37). Were we to treat the whole letter as commandments for us today, we also must wait for Paul to come bringing letters of introduction to the believers in Jerusalem.
There are principles in that passage that do apply, such as people giving "as they have prospered" (proportionally), when they gather (regularly), and "for the saints".
Romans 8:9 calls you wrong: "And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ" (emphasis added). If your assertion were sound, Peter was never a Christian. Good luck convincing anyone here of that.
Everything mentioned above was local and localized to the Jews of Peter's Jewish only church who fell into poverty. Nothing applies for all time and eternity to the Body of Christ or Gentile Christianity that decides it does.
This does not exist in the scripture. You are reading things into the text that are not there. Note this is the only mention in the Bible of such a thing and it was directed to the Corinthians at that time for the Jews who fell into poverty. Find another such instance in the Bible that conforms to your "exegesis." Scripture always interprets scripture.
There was a reason why God gave commandments TO THE JEWS UNDER THE OLD TESTAMENT LAW to tithe of all their substance. The Jewish law was not only a religious law, it was also a civil law. They were a “nation” of people governed by their own special laws. Deuteronomy 4:8 says, “For what great NATION is there that has such statutes and righteous judgements as is in all this law which I set before you this day.” That’s why there were laws concerning rape, theft, and murder, There were inheritance laws, Numbers 27. And moral laws Leviticus 18. God also had His own welfare system set in place. In Leviticus 19:9-10 God says they were not to reap the corners of their fields, nor gather EVERY grape from their vineyards. They were to leave these “for the poor.”
I’m saying all this to help us understand the PURPOSE of the 10% tithes of all of their crops and oil. Herbs, everything. When God divided the promise land (Canaan) among the Jews, every one of the 11 tribes inherited land EXCEPT the tribe of Levi. This was also the tribe from which the priest came. They did not inherit any land—only cities. Therefore they could not farm for a living—particularly the priests. The tithes of their “substance” went partially to feed and support that tribe, especially the priests. Read Nehemiah 10:37-39 plus many other references in the books of their law Exodus- Deuteronomy.
Tithing was an Old Testament practice as long as that law lasted. It is not and never has been part of the law of Christ for Christian’s. We are governed by such scriptures as 1 Cor. 16:1-2, and 2 Cor. 9:6-7.
I’m saying all this to help us understand the PURPOSE of the 10% tithes of all of their crops and oil. Herbs, everything. When God divided the promise land (Canaan) among the Jews, every one of the 11 tribes inherited land EXCEPT the tribe of Levi. This was also the tribe from which the priest came. They did not inherit any land—only cities. Therefore they could not farm for a living—particularly the priests. The tithes of their “substance” went partially to feed and support that tribe, especially the priests. Read Nehemiah 10:37-39 plus many other references in the books of their law Exodus- Deuteronomy.
Tithing was an Old Testament practice as long as that law lasted. It is not and never has been part of the law of Christ for Christian’s. We are governed by such scriptures as 1 Cor. 16:1-2, and 2 Cor. 9:6-7.
You are correct! In the 30 plus year ministries of Peter, Paul, James, John, Jude and the rest, no one ever called themselves, their followers, or their church "Christian." The word Christian appears in the entire Bible only three times. In all cases, it applied to the Jews who believed Jesus was the Son of God. The term never applied to Gentiles and no one ever called Gentiles Christians. The Romans and the other Jews of that time labeled these Jesus believing Jews Christians. It was a verbal scourge and a pejorative term leveled at Jews that the culture of that time considered a Jesus cult who believed Jesus was God. Yes, you are correct, Paul was not a Gentile Christian or any other kind of Christian as that religion did not begin until the second century.
You're missing the point completely.
I said nothing whatsoever about "not giving to the local church". I said nothing whatsoever about "not supporting your local church".
My point is this: "tithing" is NOT "giving". They are not the same thing in the Bible. Many modern Christians have erroneously conflated the concepts, so they make the same error you have just made, assuming (quite wrongly) that "not tithing" = "not giving".
Scripture does not instruct Christians to "tithe". It instructs Christians to give. Tithing (under the Law) was not voluntary; Israelites were commanded to surrender a tenth of their crops and every tenth animal to the Levites, who then gave the best tenth to the priests. Tithing of money was never commanded, either of the Israelites, or of Christians.
I agree that “tithing” was never commanded of Christians.
God in this New Age of Grace took everything out of the way including giving money. In this age we are not governed by anything except God's one and only bullet point He gives to us today through Paul: Salvation By God's Grace Through Our Faith. It is such a simple message that has been so befuddled by religion and its need to create laws to follow. No such things exist.
I didn't say give money to God, I said give to the church, the ministry, missionaries, outreach. Now tell me where the Bible says don't give.