Understanding God’s election
- Thread starter dougcho
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Yes, this is what I was saying, and said, and posted a panel about, more than once now regarding this very subject, and the one we were discussing earlier, and the point (remember that?) that was at the heart of what Cameron was making with others, others who refused to acknowledge that creation does not proclaim the gospel in the way that people know through creation that God exists. I even mentioned that you post the Scripture often about how we are to go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to every creature. That would not be necessary if the sun and moon and stars and nature itself proclaimed the gospel. So it underscores that point, also...
Romans 10:13-15 ~ Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on Him in Whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of Whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Romans 10:13-15 ~ Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on Him in Whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of Whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
I hadn’t read that sister but look at the interaction today. I was discussing with Cameron something then you began responding to those in this discussion I had no clue you were going back to some other post sis . I eas discussing with Cameron at the time some things he had said ….
Who else besides you and Cameron? .
What do you mean by this i honestly havent a clue ?
“refused to acknowledge that creation does not proclaim the gospel in the way that people know through creation that God exists. “
im not being argumentative or false I’m asking can you talk more in different terms about what this means ? I’ve never heard of anyone having to acknolwedge anything like that honestly until you began saying it . Again I’m not trying to make you mad or insult you I haven’t a clue what that means
“acknowledge that creation does not proclaim the gospel”
who said creation proclaims the gospel ? And what does that even mean ?
“refused to acknowledge that creation does not proclaim the gospel in the way that people know through creation that God exists. “
im not being argumentative or false I’m asking can you talk more in different terms about what this means ? I’ve never heard of anyone having to acknolwedge anything like that honestly until you began saying it . Again I’m not trying to make you mad or insult you I haven’t a clue what that means
“acknowledge that creation does not proclaim the gospel”
who said creation proclaims the gospel ? And what does that even mean ?
What do you mean, what? You said I started responding to others, but I do not recall saying anything to anyone else besides you and Cameron earlier today [while I was at work] in here. And this is a problem with you, for instance earlier you accused me of not addressing anything you'd said when I directly answered your question by explaining what I'd meant! So you come at me sideways and don't understand what is being said by whom or why and then we are once again in the twilight zone, but you blame others for it. If you don't know why or what I said about the natural man, why did you laugh at it? I have said plenty about the natural man to you and have also asked you many times to let me know if or when you might or if you have ever read the many many many many many many many verses I have posted over and over and over and over again but hey, I don't recall ever getting an answer for you on any of that either, while you accuse me of not answering or avoiding answering or whatever it was, false as it was. And it's not funny, unless you count ridiculous and stupid as funny. And you have read enough to lay charges on Cameron also.
Incorrect. In that case then (and if I understand you correctly), why does scripture also say, "are saved" in the below verses, as in the present tense? Scripture describes "saved" in two different tenses?
[1Co 1:18 KJV] 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
[1Co 15:2 KJV] 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[2Co 2:15 KJV] 15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
[Eph 2:5 KJV] 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
[1Pe 4:18 KJV] 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Just to make this simple, and rather than replying to each one individually, I will concede that all of the "believes" you reference are valid (I think), but with the caveat that true belief is only by God's work, not man's - given only to God's chosen - not everyone is of the chosen.
[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Specifically, which verse(s) do you have in mind for the promise you speak of in the above?
Yes, His promise was towards all who believe, but not because of their belief was the promise given - instead, it is in the reverse - that the promise brought belief to them - belief was given to them from God (per Jhn 6:29 above) out of, and from, the promise, otherwise, salvation couldn't/wouldn't be by grace: first chosen to salvation from before the foundation of the world, from that, belief given by God to those chosen.
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[1Co 1:18 KJV] 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
[1Co 15:2 KJV] 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[2Co 2:15 KJV] 15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
[Eph 2:5 KJV] 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
[1Pe 4:18 KJV] 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Just to make this simple, and rather than replying to each one individually, I will concede that all of the "believes" you reference are valid (I think), but with the caveat that true belief is only by God's work, not man's - given only to God's chosen - not everyone is of the chosen.
[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Specifically, which verse(s) do you have in mind for the promise you speak of in the above?
Yes, His promise was towards all who believe, but not because of their belief was the promise given - instead, it is in the reverse - that the promise brought belief to them - belief was given to them from God (per Jhn 6:29 above) out of, and from, the promise, otherwise, salvation couldn't/wouldn't be by grace: first chosen to salvation from before the foundation of the world, from that, belief given by God to those chosen.
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.