Imputed Righteousness???

[ocean]

You are correct. The following passage teaches us that God counts our faith as righteousness, but it does not imply we are credited with the righteousness of Christ...

Abraham Justified by Faith​

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4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.​

​

David Celebrates the Same Truth​

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5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:​

​

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,​

And whose sins are covered;​

8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”​

​

The New King James Version (Ro 4:1–8). (1982). Thomas Nelson.​

​

Note: The bold+underline is where the underlying original language uses the word, "λογίζομαι", which is translated here "counted", "accounted", "impute" and "imputes".​

2 Corinthians 5:21 says, "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." It speaks of "becomming" the righteousness of God in Him. It says nothing about being credited with His righteousness.

Actually, we have no righteousness other than the righteousness of Christ, our Savior. It should be apparent that if something we do, ie practice faith in what God reveals to us, serves to credit us with righteousness, then might we not continue to fashion our own way into salvation? However, for some reason, God sent His only Son to die in our place, BECAUSE we do not have the ability to appear as righteous before God in any way, shape or form.

God's righteousness demands perfection. Has there ever been on person who has claim to that perfection? Abraham also disobeyed God so his belief, while righteous in it's acceptance of God, cannot possibly achieve the total perfection of God. I am saying Abraham was not perfect which would be the requirement before God for acceptance before Him.

A person can be righteous one moment and sin the next. That, is not righteous nor acceptable for God's requirement for the penalty of sin, which is death. The only way to obtain this righteousness is through Jesus, His death on our behalf. That, is what is meant by 'we have the righteousness of Christ' as scripture declares.

We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. Isaiah 64:6

Abraham was long dead when Isaiah declared the above. No mention of any type of righteousness a person may make before God. Rather the declaration that even what we say or consider as righteous, is vile to God.

Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. Romans 5:9

Justification means we are not considered as sinful beings before God as our Father in heaven now sees us as sinless because of the perfect sacrifice of Jesus. People sometimes have a problem with that concept and will declare 'oh but I still sin!' Well, that is why Jesus came to earth to die for us. His sacrifice is what is acceptable to God on our behalf. We have forgiveness in Jesus.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Again, TDNT says,

If we ignore these passages, and postpone for the moment our consideration of the distinctive Pauline formula δικαιοσύνη θεοῦ, we may first maintain that δικαιοσύνη is almost always used in the NT for the right conduct of man which follows the will of God and is pleasing to Him, for rectitude of life before God, for uprightness before His judgment. The fact that the basic relationship to God is always in view, and that it is related to the event of revelation, distinguishes this usage from Greek and Hellenistic ethics and links it firmly with the OT. [Schrenk, G. (1964–). δίκη, δίκαιος, δικαιοσύνη, δικαιόω, δικαίωμα, δικαίωσις, δικαιοκρισία. In G. Kittel, G. W. Bromiley, & G. Friedrich (Eds.), Theological dictionary of the New Testament (electronic ed., Vol. 2, p. 198). Eerdmans.]​

How can a person orient his conduct to follow God's will and please Him without first knowing what God requires of him? Louw-Nida gets to the heart of the meaning of the NT's use of the word "righteousness" because it points us to God to first understand His will then do it.

Some people want to insert intermediaries between God and man to define His will and the things that please Him. Some examples are morality, law, and conscience, thinking that orienting oneself to these things makes a person right with God. But that is not the case. God interacts with human beings directly and makes His will known to them. If a person hears Him and learns from Him and does what He requires, that person is right with God from His point of view (and His POV is the only POV that counts).

As a side note, if a person chooses the law as an intermediary between him and God, thinking that he is righteous in God's eyes if he follows all His precepts as laid out in the Bible, then his righteousness is derived from obeying the law (Phil 3:9). But the righteousness that we have in Christ is righteousness which comes by faith (i.e., by trusting Him and walking as He leads).

Louw-Nida's "definition" reminds me of a movie (forget the name) in which they say "It's got electrolytes, they're what a body craves". Someone asks, "What are electrolytes?" and they answer "They're what a body craves"

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Actually, we have no righteousness other than the righteousness of Christ, our Savior. It should be apparent that if something we do, ie practice faith in what God reveals to us, serves to credit us with righteousness, then might we not continue to fashion our own way into salvation? However, for some reason, God sent His only Son to die in our place, BECAUSE we do not have the ability to appear as righteous before God in any way, shape or form.

God's righteousness demands perfection. Has there ever been on person who has claim to that perfection? Abraham also disobeyed God so his belief, while righteous in it's acceptance of God, cannot possibly achieve the total perfection of God. I am saying Abraham was not perfect which would be the requirement before God for acceptance before Him.

A person can be righteous one moment and sin the next. That, is not righteous nor acceptable for God's requirement for the penalty of sin, which is death. The only way to obtain this righteousness is through Jesus, His death on our behalf. That, is what is meant by 'we have the righteousness of Christ' as scripture declares.

We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. Isaiah 64:6

Abraham was long dead when Isaiah declared the above. No mention of any type of righteousness a person may make before God. Rather the declaration that even what we say or consider as righteous, is vile to God.

Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. Romans 5:9

Justification means we are not considered as sinful beings before God as our Father in heaven now sees us as sinless because of the perfect sacrifice of Jesus. People sometimes have a problem with that concept and will declare 'oh but I still sin!' Well, that is why Jesus came to earth to die for us. His sacrifice is what is acceptable to God on our behalf. We have forgiveness in Jesus.

I almost totally agree with you. After I sent my previous post, I realized it could lead a person to think that rightness with God is achieved by hearing and doing what God says. While it is true in one sense (i.e., we must trust God's testimony that we are sinners in need of a Savior and we must go to Jesus for the salvation He offers), the message of trust and obey is easily turned into salvation by faith plus works.

Certainly, the one and only thing that puts us and keeps us in a right relationship with God is Jesus' offering of Himself as a sacrifice for our sins. Every sin we commit reinforces that same conclusion. And even though the only way to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh is to walk in the Spirit, nothing we do to walk in lock step with Him as He leads, guides, teaches, directs, corrects, and comforts us from the intimacy of our own hearts makes us righteous. As you said, He is our righteousness.

 

[Jimbone]

This is a tricky one. I've heard this preached a lot; usually they call it the "great exchange." But it doesn't sound right to me. The logical outcome of this teaching is the teaching that spiritually we are the righteousness of Christ but the flesh still sins. The whole thing sounds like Gnosticism to me.

That may be because the things of the Spirit are foolishness to you. I hope not, and defiantly cannot know that, but it makes perfect sense when you've been born of the Spirit, or "Born-Again".

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

How can a person orient his conduct to follow God's will and please Him without first knowing what God requires of him? Louw-Nida gets to the heart of the meaning of the NT's use of the word "righteousness" because it points us to God to first understand His will then do it.

Some people want to insert intermediaries between God and man to define His will and the things that please Him. Some examples are morality, law, and conscience, thinking that orienting oneself to these things makes a person right with God. But that is not the case. God interacts with human beings directly and makes His will known to them. If a person hears Him and learns from Him and does what He requires, that person is right with God from His point of view (and His POV is the only POV that counts).

It almost seems as if you view righteousness as an orientation towards God rather than a specific moral attribute. Is that a fair appraisal?

 

[ocean]

I almost totally agree with you. After I sent my previous post, I realized it could lead a person to think that rightness with God is achieved by hearing and doing what God says. While it is true in one sense (i.e., we must trust God's testimony that we are sinners in need of a Savior and we must go to Jesus for the salvation He offers), the message of trust and obey is easily turned into salvation by faith plus works.

Certainly, the one and only thing that puts us and keeps us in a right relationship with God is Jesus' offering of Himself as a sacrifice for our sins. Every sin we commit reinforces that same conclusion. And even though the only way to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh is to walk in the Spirit, nothing we do to walk in lock step with Him as He leads, guides, teaches, directs, corrects, and comforts us from the intimacy of our own hearts makes us righteous. As you said, He is our righteousness.

Actually I did understand your post as you state above but reading further of your posts, I understood better. Thanks for your reply and clarification. It seems we agree on our understanding of righteousness only through Christ.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

It almost seems as if you view righteousness as an orientation towards God rather than a specific moral attribute. Is that a fair appraisal?

I see both aspects. The first is God's judgement about one's relationship to a standard, and the other is a moral attribute of the new man...

"Righteousness" has a standard in mind, an arbiter, and a judgement about conformity to the standard. When we talk about "righteousness by the law", for example, we set the requirements of the law as the standard, God as the arbiter, and we see God's judgement that "There is none righteous, no, not one" (Ro 3:10).

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Ro 3:19–20)​

When we talk about the "righteousness of faith", we set "trust in Christ" as the standard, God as the arbiter, and we see God's judgement that "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame" (Ro 10:11). In this respect, it is safe to say, "Our rightness with God (i.e., our righteousness) is because He has chosen to spare us from the wages of our sins because He righly sees that we believe in His Son (Jn 3:16, 1 Cor 1:21)".

When Paul said the new man was "created according to God in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph 4:24), he was describing our union with Christ in the inner man that makes us truly righteous and holy in every respect by virtue of the fact that we are one spirit with Him (1 Cor 6:17). Per Romans 8:4, all the law's righteous requirements are fulfilled in us (i.e., they are never broken, for if you break one, you break them all -- Jas 2:10). As a result, if we want to make righteousness a moral attribute, we must make it a moral attribute of the new man because we know that the righteousness we possess in Christ is in the spirit (which is alive because of His righteousness) and not in the flesh (which is dead because of its sin) (Ro 8:10).

We can see this moral attribute of the new man when we look inside our hearts. We see that we love God with all our hearts. We see that we love the things of God and hate sin. We see that we love our brothers and sisters in Christ and that we long for the lost to be saved. We see that we long for the day when we will be free of the flesh. We see our agreement with God when He corrects us, leads us, guides us, and directs us. And we see that we long to be with Christ and that we long to see Him as He is. He brought these things with Him when He came to live in our hearts. And we do well if walk in them. But walking in them does not produce a judgment on God's part that we are righteous. The righteousness that we possess in the new man is ours by virtue of the fact that Christ lives in us and we are joined with Him.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I hear and read many times about the Christian having the imputed righteousness of Christ.
Funny thing is, NOWHERE in Scripture does it say we are credited with the Righteousness of Christ
Selah

It’s speaking to people that heard and believed the gospel of the kingdom

“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

bit often people who haven’t heard the gospel read the epistles and then at that point missing all the foundation they then see it wrong as if one doesn’t need to hear and follow the gospel of the kingdom but all the sudden thier just considered righteous because they read a sentance in an epistle we have to seek the lord and the gospel is the map

If we do that he can change us at the core into people who are righteous by nature

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

When Paul said the new man was "created according to God in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph 4:24), he was describing our union with Christ in the inner man that makes us truly righteous and holy in every respect by virtue of the fact that we are one spirit with Him (1 Cor 6:17). Per Romans 8:4, all the law's righteous requirements are fulfilled in us (i.e., they are never broken, for if you break one, you break them all -- Jas 2:10). As a result, if we want to make righteousness a moral attribute, we must make it a moral attribute of the new man because we know that the righteousness we possess in Christ is in the spirit (which is alive because of His righteousness) and not in the flesh (which is dead because of its sin) (Ro 8:10).

We have righteous standing through Christ's death, but the righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled in us if we walk according to the spirit. So the righteous effect (righteous with -ma suffix) of the law is conditional upon our obedience

That the righteous work of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4​

​

Righteous work
G1345 δικαίωμα dikaio-ma (d̮iy-kai'-ō-ma) n.
1. an equitable deed.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

And we do well if walk in them. But walking in them does not produce a judgment on God's part that we are righteous. The righteousness that we possess in the new man is ours by virtue of the fact that Christ lives in us and we are joined with Him.

The judgment of righteousness was executed at the cross. We are declared righteous in God's eyes by faith in Christ's death. We abide in his righteousness as we walk in the spirit of righteousness. If we walk in the flesh then we are not working righteouness, even though we have been declared righteous by God.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Actually, we have no righteousness other than the righteousness of Christ, our Savior. It should be apparent that if something we do, ie practice faith in what God reveals to us, serves to credit us with righteousness, then might we not continue to fashion our own way into salvation? However, for some reason, God sent His only Son to die in our place, BECAUSE we do not have the ability to appear as righteous before God in any way, shape or form.

God's righteousness demands perfection. Has there ever been on person who has claim to that perfection? Abraham also disobeyed God so his belief, while righteous in it's acceptance of God, cannot possibly achieve the total perfection of God. I am saying Abraham was not perfect which would be the requirement before God for acceptance before Him.

A person can be righteous one moment and sin the next. That, is not righteous nor acceptable for God's requirement for the penalty of sin, which is death. The only way to obtain this righteousness is through Jesus, His death on our behalf. That, is what is meant by 'we have the righteousness of Christ' as scripture declares.

We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. Isaiah 64:6

Abraham was long dead when Isaiah declared the above. No mention of any type of righteousness a person may make before God. Rather the declaration that even what we say or consider as righteous, is vile to God.

Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. Romans 5:9

Justification means we are not considered as sinful beings before God as our Father in heaven now sees us as sinless because of the perfect sacrifice of Jesus. People sometimes have a problem with that concept and will declare 'oh but I still sin!' Well, that is why Jesus came to earth to die for us. His sacrifice is what is acceptable to God on our behalf. We have forgiveness in Jesus.

“In this the children of God are manifest,

and the children of the devil:

whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

our actions have to match our words eventually we can’t keep serving sin even if we claim we’re under grace we still have to repent and do good not evil

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,( option 1)

or of obedience unto righteousness?”( option 2)
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

We have righteous standing through Christ's death, but the righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled in us if we walk according to the spirit. So the righteous effect (righteous with -ma suffix) of the law is conditional upon our obedience

That the righteous work of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4​

​

Righteous work
G1345 δικαίωμα dikaio-ma (d̮iy-kai'-ō-ma) n.
1. an equitable deed.

Your interpretation turns Romans 8:4 into works. Do you do the same thing with Romans 8:1, saying there is now no condemnation if you are obedient? That is nonsensical because there is never any condemnation for obedience.

The identity of the people group that walks after the Spirit and not after the flesh is found in the verses that follow Romans 8:4. Specifically, Romans 8:5 begins with the word "for" (or "because").

4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.​

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.​

(Ro 8:4–10)​

They are those who:

1. Live according to the Spirit (vs. 5),
2. Are spiritually minded (vs. 6),
3. Are not in the flesh (vs. 9),
4. Are in the Spirit (vs. 9),
5. The Spirit of God dwells in them (vs. 9),
6. They have the Spirit of Christ (vs. 9), and
7. Christ lives in them (vs. 10).

These verses describe two mutually exclusive groups of people, one good and one bad. Everyone in the good group is in the group becuase the Spirit of God lives in them (vs. 9). Everyone without the Spirit of Christ is in the bad group (also vs. 9). Everyone in the good group shares the above attributes. In addition, they are led by the Spirit of God (vs. 14), they are children of God (vs. 16), they cry out, "Abba, Father" (vs. 15), and they are joint heirs with Christ (vs. 17).

As a result, it is safe to say that everyone in the good group and no one in the bad group is a beneficiary of the lack of condemnation in verse 1, the freedom from the law of sin and death that new life in Christ brings in verse 2, the conquering of the law through the body of Christ in verse 3, and the fulfilment of the righteous requirements of the law because of their union with Christ in verse 4.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Your interpretation turns Romans 8:4 into works. Do you do the same thing with Romans 8:1, saying there is now no condemnation if you are obedient? That is nonsensical because there is never any condemnation for obedience.

The Christian walk is work. Christ said the work of God is to beiieve into him. Works are encouraged and admonished throughout the NT. Whenever Paul contrasted works with faith he was referring specifically to the law of Moses. Nothing else. Those who think faith precludes works are in serious error

I don"t recognize the last part of Romans 8:1 as legitimate. Virtually all scholars consider it an extrapolation from Romans 8:4.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

These verses describe two mutually exclusive groups of people, one good and one bad. Everyone in the good group is in the group becuase the Spirit of God lives in them (vs. 9). Everyone without the Spirit of Christ is in the bad group (also vs. 9). Everyone in the good group shares the above attributes. In addition, they are led by the Spirit of God (vs. 14), they are children of God (vs. 16), they cry out, "Abba, Father" (vs. 15), and they are joint heirs with Christ (vs. 17).

The spirit can be in you and not profit you anything if you don't do the works of the spirit.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Your interpretation turns Romans 8:4 into works. Do you do the same thing with Romans 8:1, saying there is now no condemnation if you are obedient? That is nonsensical because there is never any condemnation for obedience.

The identity of the people group that walks after the Spirit and not after the flesh is found in the verses that follow Romans 8:4. Specifically, Romans 8:5 begins with the word "for" (or "because").

4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.​

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.​

(Ro 8:4–10)​

They are those who:

1. Live according to the Spirit (vs. 5),
2. Are spiritually minded (vs. 6),
3. Are not in the flesh (vs. 9),
4. Are in the Spirit (vs. 9),
5. The Spirit of God dwells in them (vs. 9),
6. They have the Spirit of Christ (vs. 9), and
7. Christ lives in them (vs. 10).

These verses describe two mutually exclusive groups of people, one good and one bad. Everyone in the good group is in the group becuase the Spirit of God lives in them (vs. 9). Everyone without the Spirit of Christ is in the bad group (also vs. 9). Everyone in the good group shares the above attributes. In addition, they are led by the Spirit of God (vs. 14), they are children of God (vs. 16), they cry out, "Abba, Father" (vs. 15), and they are joint heirs with Christ (vs. 17).

As a result, it is safe to say that everyone in the good group and no one in the bad group is a beneficiary of the lack of condemnation in verse 1, the freedom from the law of sin and death that new life in Christ brings in verse 2, the conquering of the law through the body of Christ in verse 3, and the fulfilment of the righteous requirements of the law because of their union with Christ in verse 4.

“Your interpretation turns Romans 8:4 into works. Do you do the same thing with Romans 8:1, saying there is now no condemnation if you are obedient? That is nonsensical because there is never any condemnation for obedience.”

doesnt that make it the opposite of nonsensical lol Jesus didn’t come and die to excuse our ongoing sin, he came to change us from these folks who think they can’t repent and do right

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus the issue is most Christian’s haven’t )

that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;



and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so many people calling themselves Christian’s never even bother to moisten to what Jesus taught in the gospel , so thier mind remains in the old state “ we’re all evil sinners no one can do good it’s just who we are “ it’s because no one’s hearing and believing the gospel thier mind is never changing from the old corrupt sinner

so obedience becomes “ nonsensical “ to us but which person sees it that way this guy ?

The old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

or this guy ?

“put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”


Obeying the lord might be nonsensical to a corrupt mind that thinks they are incapable but to the new man created to be like Jesus in true righteousness and holiness ? I think it makes perfect sense there’s no condemnation in Christ for those who do not follow thier flesh lusts and desires but for those who follow the spirit

Paul repeatedly says it

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What is the works of the flesh we need to put to death by the spirit ?

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16, 19-21‬ ‭


faith isn’t the excuse we have to not obey God faith is the reason why we do obey him. If we don’t stop serving Satans Will ehoch is sin , we’re going to perish like any other sinner

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The Christian walk is work. Christ said the work of God is to beiieve into him. Works are encouraged and admonished throughout the NT. Whenever Paul contrasted works with faith he was referring specifically to the law of Moses. Nothing else. Those who think faith precludes works are in serious error

I don"t recognize the last part of Romans 8:1 as legitimate. Virtually all scholars consider it an extrapolation from Romans 8:4.

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s part of Paul’s doctrine there’s no reason not to accept it watch how it fits consistently in his doctrine

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-25‬ ‭

see how we can follow our spirit or flesh ? We’re conflicted between good and evil

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

romans 8:1 the whole verse fits perfectly with Paul’s doctrine throughout his epistles theres a lot more but I’ll stop it goes all the way back to the original issue of man’s flesh and spirit which God gave us

“And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, a

for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬

The flesh and spirit is a constant theme in his epistles because Jesus set the foundation for the terminology

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh;

and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

so Paul then uses his terminology

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just like the other epistles taught

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

The judgment of righteousness was executed at the cross.

I don't know what you mean by this statement.

We are declared righteous in God's eyes by faith in Christ's death.

I take it that you follow the interpretations of "Some scholars" below? I think Justification in Romans 4:5 fits Louw-Nida's definition better... God makes right (and ends the enmity in) our relationship with Him on the basis of our faith in Christ.

34.46 δικαιόωa; δικαίωσιςa, εως f; δικαιοσύνηb, ης f: to cause someone to be in a proper or right relation with someone else—‘to put right with, to cause to be in a right relationship with.’ Some scholars, however, interpret δικαιόω, δικαίωσις, and δικαιοσύνη in the following contexts as meaning ‘forensic righteousness,’ that it to say, the act of being declared righteous on the basis of Christ’s atoning ministry, but it would seem more probable that Paul uses these expressions in the context of the covenant relation rather than in the context of legal procedures. [Louw-Nida]​

We abide in his righteousness as we walk in the spirit of righteousness.

I agree that walking in the Spirit is the only way to avoid fulfilling the lusts of the flesh.

If we walk in the flesh then we are not working righteouness, even though we have been declared righteous by God.

I agree that when we fail to walk in the Spirit we are walking in the flesh. The interpretation of "Some scholars" that a declaration of righteousness takes place is creating a paradox in your POV. That paradox is as you described... God declares a person to be righteous on the basis of Christ's atoning minstry, but that person demonstrates unrighteousness when he fails to walk as God directs. It's as if they think God is saying I will count you as righteous even though everyone can see that you're not.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The bolded part is not a part of the original text. Research Romans 8:1 + interpolation

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

“Your interpretation turns Romans 8:4 into works. Do you do the same thing with Romans 8:1, saying there is now no condemnation if you are obedient? That is nonsensical because there is never any condemnation for obedience.”

doesnt that make it the opposite of nonsensical lol Jesus didn’t come and die to excuse our ongoing sin, he came to change us from these folks who think they can’t repent and do right

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus the issue is most Christian’s haven’t )

that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;



and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so many people calling themselves Christian’s never even bother to moisten to what Jesus taught in the gospel , so thier mind remains in the old state “ we’re all evil sinners no one can do good it’s just who we are “ it’s because no one’s hearing and believing the gospel thier mind is never changing from the old corrupt sinner

so obedience becomes “ nonsensical “ to us but which person sees it that way this guy ?

The old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

or this guy ?

“put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”


Obeying the lord might be nonsensical to a corrupt mind that thinks they are incapable but to the new man created to be like Jesus in true righteousness and holiness ? I think it makes perfect sense there’s no condemnation in Christ for those who do not follow thier flesh lusts and desires but for those who follow the spirit

Paul repeatedly says it

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What is the works of the flesh we need to put to death by the spirit ?

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16, 19-21‬ ‭


faith isn’t the excuse we have to not obey God faith is the reason why we do obey him. If we don’t stop serving Satans Will ehoch is sin , we’re going to perish like any other sinner

I can't relate to what you're saying. Maybe you can be more clear on your objection to my statement. There has never been any condemnation for obedience. So how would the statement make sense that "Now" (after some intervening event) there is no condemnation for obedience? I don't think you can make sense of that.

But if it makes sense to you, then answer this question... What happens to you, and how do you escape condemnation, when you fail to do everything that is required of you?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

There is no condemnation in Christ, period. The righteous work of the law is accomplished in those who walk after the spirit and not the flesh. Conversely, the righteous work of the law is NOT accomplished in those who walk after the flesh and not the spirit