James & Ecclesiastes - What is Wisdom?

[SilverFox7]

W-illing
I-s
S-on
D-one
O- ver
M-e

I like the way you broke down wisdom, brother. Jesus Christ is our greatest source of wisdom for sure!

James encourages us to ask God for wisdom:

James 1:5-8

New King James Version

5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

These verses and more to come are reasons why people struggle with this epistle. James uses strong language and, like Hebrews, he just lays the cards on the table and tells us how we should be living as Christians. We should ask for wisdom, and that prayer like all of our prayers should be expressed in faith, knowing that God hears our prayers and answers them according to His wisdom.

Doubt is part of being human and, at least for me, it's still an influence in my life. But like James expresses metaphorically, me "...who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind" (v. 6). I love to fish large bodies of water like Lake Michigan, and I have experienced some wicked wind and waves. My small boat is designed for "big water" fishing, and it floats like a cork. However, it can be a sickening experience literally to be tossed to-and-fro by the waves.

Doubt is a lot like that for me. I have been trained to be a scientist and a scholar and like Thomas, I wrestle with doubt because faith can be counterintuitive to fact-based reason at times. What makes sense to me doesn't always align with what God desires, and I am learning slowly to trust Him more in faith and step out into areas I would never venture into without His encouragement and help. It's still a battle in my mind, though, and I just need to let go of the need to want control.

Wisdom is a complimentary attribute of faith: "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding" (Proverbs 9:10). The fear that's being referred to here is reverence and awe of our God. Where fear and faith are incompatible opposites in our world, Godly fear and faith actually go hand-in-hand for me. My reverence for the Lord draws me into a deeper relationship with Him, and that produces more faith and more wisdom which come from God.

 

[homwardbound]

I like the way you broke down wisdom, brother. Jesus Christ is our greatest source of wisdom for sure!

James encourages us to ask God for wisdom:

James 1:5-8

New King James Version

5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

These verses and more to come are reasons why people struggle with this epistle. James uses strong language and, like Hebrews, he just lays the cards on the table and tells us how we should be living as Christians. We should ask for wisdom, and that prayer like all of our prayers should be expressed in faith, knowing that God hears our prayers and answers them according to His wisdom.

Doubt is part of being human and, at least for me, it's still an influence in my life. But like James expresses metaphorically, me "...who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind" (v. 6). I love to fish large bodies of water like Lake Michigan, and I have experienced some wicked wind and waves. My small boat is designed for "big water" fishing, and it floats like a cork. However, it can be a sickening experience literally to be tossed to-and-fro by the waves.

Doubt is a lot like that for me. I have been trained to be a scientist and a scholar and like Thomas, I wrestle with doubt because faith can be counterintuitive to fact-based reason at times. What makes sense to me doesn't always align with what God desires, and I am learning slowly to trust Him more in faith and step out into areas I would never venture into without His encouragement and help. It's still a battle in my mind, though, and I just need to let go of the need to want control.

Wisdom is a complimentary attribute of faith: "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding" (Proverbs 9:10). The fear that's being referred to here is reverence and awe of our God. Where fear and faith are incompatible opposites in our world, Godly fear and faith actually go hand-in-hand for me. My reverence for the Lord draws me into a deeper relationship with Him, and that produces more faith and more wisdom which come from God.

thank you yes "The need for control" is killer Me too, that has a way to get me upset, and for me to calm down and see it through too, becoming a waiter wow, thanks Brother

 

[SilverFox7]

Wisdom is a gift from God, and it is a great attribute to have in this wild and out-of-control world. Why is it that Solomon's gift went from being an asset that helped him govern the nation successfully to souring into misery and despair? I like the sub-title that Bible Gateway (biblegateway.com) gives to this next section:

Ecclesiastes 1:12-15

New King James Version

The Grief of Wisdom

12 I, the Preacher, was king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 And I set my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all that is done under heaven; this burdensome task God has given to the sons of man, by which they may be [a]exercised. 14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and indeed, all is vanity and grasping for the wind.

What is crooked cannot be
made straight,
And what is lacking cannot be
numbered. (v.15)

While Solomon had wisdom, we get a glimpse into his spiritual state where he is critical towards God, calling his work a "...burdensome task God has given..." Solomon. It's like God is a taskmaster who enjoys making our lives miserable, for in the end it's all "...vanity and grasping for the wind." We can't straighten out this crooked world nor can fill the void of that which is lacking in our lives. Wisdom separated from God is a depressing state of mind to be in, and we need to seek more than using our gifts for material success alone:

James 1:9-11

The Perspective of Rich and Poor

9 Let the lowly brother glory in his exaltation, 10 but the rich in his humiliation, because as a flower of the field he will pass away. 11 For no sooner has the sun risen with a burning heat than it withers the grass; its flower falls, and its beautiful appearance perishes. So the rich man also will fade away in his pursuits.

Those who are abased can be exalted, and those who are proud will be humbled. There's nothing wrong with pursuing a good career with great pay and benefits, and it is admirable and fulfilling as long as we keep God first and remain humble. "The Grief of Wisdom" comes through a pursuit of pleasure and material success apart from our primary focus of seeking God's kingdom and "His righteousness" first (Matt. 6:33).

 

[homwardbound]

Wisdom is a gift from God, and it is a great attribute to have in this wild and out-of-control world. Why is it that Solomon's gift went from being an asset that helped him govern the nation successfully to souring into misery and despair? I like the sub-title that Bible Gateway (biblegateway.com) gives to this next section:

Ecclesiastes 1:12-15

New King James Version

The Grief of Wisdom

12 I, the Preacher, was king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 And I set my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all that is done under heaven; this burdensome task God has given to the sons of man, by which they may be [a]exercised. 14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and indeed, all is vanity and grasping for the wind.

What is crooked cannot be
made straight,
And what is lacking cannot be
numbered. (v.15)

While Solomon had wisdom, we get a glimpse into his spiritual state where he is critical towards God, calling his work a "...burdensome task God has given..." Solomon. It's like God is a taskmaster who enjoys making our lives miserable, for in the end it's all "...vanity and grasping for the wind." We can't straighten out this crooked world nor can fill the void of that which is lacking in our lives. Wisdom separated from God is a depressing state of mind to be in, and we need to seek more than using our gifts for material success alone:

James 1:9-11

The Perspective of Rich and Poor

9 Let the lowly brother glory in his exaltation, 10 but the rich in his humiliation, because as a flower of the field he will pass away. 11 For no sooner has the sun risen with a burning heat than it withers the grass; its flower falls, and its beautiful appearance perishes. So the rich man also will fade away in his pursuits.

Those who are abased can be exalted, and those who are proud will be humbled. There's nothing wrong with pursuing a good career with great pay and benefits, and it is admirable and fulfilling as long as we keep God first and remain humble. "The Grief of Wisdom" comes through a pursuit of pleasure and material success apart from our primary focus of seeking God's kingdom and "His righteousness" first (Matt. 6:33).

It is a double edged sword. As you wrote, one sees God as good all the time and another sees the same God as not Good, then there are those like the wave of the sea also
Solomon explains, unless one puts God first above it all, it is then all vanity is vanity
The devil's advocate Evil uses Vanity to get us the people to choose incorrectly and harm others to have things here on earth, here and now. That is the choice temporal this world or eternity Heaven with Father and Son as Won forever for us to stand in that, not having to work, choosing to, at least me thank you
It is this I see
Jesus got taken up on a high mountain and shown the kingdoms of this world he was in, then
Do any of us ever think that happens to us also?
So choose Vanity or God above it all?
I Choose the risen Jesus as the only way to Father the Holy Spirit to lead me in truth, even if ever homeless, yet I am never homeless, not in Father and Son anyways
For my home is Heaven and therefore I can never be truly homeless. I can only get trapped in thought as is used by Evil for vanity to enter us and cause harm.
Have you ever died, close to death, did you remain willing to die here on earth? Do we not see whether we life here or die here, we are the Lord's forever saved in his done work of Son as risen, Romans 14
I know and am convinced all things are clean of itself!
therefore whatever I choose to do with anything it all begins as cleaned from God in risen Son for us all to stand in or not
So what makes anything unclean. I see that would be harming others and not caring in doing that, anyone else?

 

[Magenta]

Happy New Year, Magenta - I'm enjoying time with family in Sarasota, Fla. and pray you've had a blessed holiday season as well!

My conversion took place when I was 21, but I certainly had my taste of living a rebellious and rough life as a teenager. Unfortunately, even after conversion, I still go to the "school of hard knocks" occasionally. That old fool within me just doesn't want to give up !

Thank you Silver Fox and I did have a lovely Christmas season ... very quiet, which is how I like it best... far from the madding crowd... 21 is such a very young age, and I have often wondered what it would be like to live through the majority of my young adulthood as a bonafide Christian... Heh I'm sure my life would've been quite different, but I cannot regret anything that I've been through... In fact one of my repeated refrains is I am grateful God was so gracious toward me to allow me to survive the stupidity of my youth...

 

[homwardbound]

Thank you Silver Fox and I did have a lovely Christmas season ... very quiet, which is how I like it best... far from the madding crowd... 21 is such a very young age, and I have often wondered what it would be like to live through the majority of my young adulthood as a bonafide Christian... Heh I'm sure my life would've been quite different, but I cannot regret anything that I've been through... In fact one of my repeated refrains is I am grateful God was so gracious toward me to allow me to survive the stupidity of my youth...

Me too, thinking Father and Son too

 

[maxwel]

Luther felt James emphasized a "justification by works" approach

Book Of James:

Rather than "justification by works", we should think of it as "verification by works."


Have a great weekend.
.

 

[homwardbound]

Book Of James:

Rather than "justification by works", we should think of it as "verification by works."


Have a great weekend.
.

Thank you for the spur this gives me, in the continual rest God and Son give as Won (One)
verification, yes by God, done in God's done work of Son, yes thanks, I get this. For me to take any credit is to be the leader, I am not, I am not qualified, God is and chose to use us if one, anyone is willing. Think not my will your will Father, being willing frees
Even as Jesus said it Nevertheless not my will Father your will be done
Who in the flesh would have endured what Jesus endured all that way to that cross without any fight back.
I see me, someone says something wrong to me or about me and what happens, I have that tendency to fight back, being in this flesh and blood nature, or so my old mindset thinks so. When truth is, in Father and Son that is not true. God saves us, God shows us, by his love and mercy, not condemning us, even though others and myself has condemned others, even after claiming to believe.
I see the insecurity of first born nature,
Verification Love it
God verifies you, me and each others in God's Love in God's Holy Spirit, time to see, as God leads
Woe is me

 

[SilverFox7]

Book Of James:

Rather than "justification by works", we should think of it as "verification by works."

I think that sums up James' ideas better. "Verification by works," God's work within us manifesting the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[SilverFox7]

In fact one of my repeated refrains is I am grateful God was so gracious toward me to allow me to survive the stupidity of my youth...

No doubt about that, sister. I'm not sure I would have lived long, and/or I may have ended up in jail without God's calling to get out of the town and lifestyle I was living as a teenager.

I can certainly relate with Solomon: the party lifestyle left me empty, and even when I got a good job and started going to college part-time when I was 19, my life still felt purposeless until I met Jesus and started developing a relationship with Him.

 

[SilverFox7]

The devil's advocate Evil uses Vanity to get us the people to choose incorrectly and harm others to have things here on earth, here and now. That is the choice temporal this world or eternity Heaven with Father and Son as Won forever for us to stand in that, not having to work, choosing to, at least me thank you

These are good thoughts, brother. Vanity is such a solid temptation because it usually brings some temporary pleasure and material benefits short term. And then a moment or day of pleasure yields days, weeks, or longer of emptiness and sorrow. I need to keep my eyes on God at all times because the "dark side" is always there trying to suck me in. It's a battle for sure, my friend.

 

[Karlon]

Thank you Silver Fox and I did have a lovely Christmas season ... very quiet, which is how I like it best... far from the madding crowd... 21 is such a very young age, and I have often wondered what it would be like to live through the majority of my young adulthood as a bonafide Christian... Heh I'm sure my life would've been quite different, but I cannot regret anything that I've been through... In fact one of my repeated refrains is I am grateful God was so gracious toward me to allow me to survive the stupidity of my youth...

millions of Christians can admit the same truth. you are honest & you pass along worthy testimony to others. just the other day, i said again to Jesus: "thanks for being long-suffering towards me & giving me all this time to continue to grow in grace". i was raised catholic. there's a very good chance if i was raised Christian i would not have been 1 of the most extreme vandals ever. there were about 20, maybe even 30 of us vandals in the small town i grew up in. boy, am i going to hear it from God when i get up there!!! ( i know he'll remember my sins no more ). 1 time, we blew out every window on 1 side of a factory! so bad we were. we caused so much damage that there was a book telling how there was more vandalism in that town than any other in the whole country! we all came from dysfunctional families, most of us poor, misdirected, no christian guidance, etc. praise the Lord Jesus for His mercy, compassion, blessings, grace, love, guidance, forgiveness, etc. He wins!

 

[homwardbound]

These are good thoughts, brother. Vanity is such a solid temptation because it usually brings some temporary pleasure and material benefits short term. And then a moment or day of pleasure yields days, weeks, or longer of emptiness and sorrow. I need to keep my eyes on God at all times because the "dark side" is always there trying to suck me in. It's a battle for sure, my friend.

there is a movie "The Devils Advocate" that might be helpful to you in learning truth
To know truth I see to face it and always look for any Gold Nuggets in Shows and Movies and just life as it goes from day to day. Understanding God does not and will not separate from you, njo matte what you have done, might do or even do it again
Boy do I know that one, doing it again. God not condemning me. God does not need to I do it well enough for me.
God is trying to show me Hebrews 10, the entire Chapter in me being purged from Sin by him and his Son as Won for me and all others as well

Hebrews 1:3
who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Hebrews 9:14
how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Hebrews 10:2
For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

therefore, shouldn't we have no more conscience of sin? Do you think once purged also by Son's done work, do you think we will be purged? Defiantly not by work(s) according to Paul
Who was a Blasphemer and killer of those that believed God
Especially Stephan, who in front of Saul (Before Paul) let them stone him to death willingly and even said he saw Jesus the risen waiting for him, He did that in assuredly
Me, if I were Saul and saw Stephan do this. I know what that would do to me in thought
Who goes to their death willingly? Then that road to Damascus
God is as real as the air I breathe that I do not see physically normally
Love to you brother God does just love us all, as you know this and get trapped up in this world too. Learn g still, me to not be of the world, only in it
The best I can do is daily die to me willingly to see God in Spirit and Truth off the Love for us all done by Son for us all on that cross. to now cross over right now in God's Spirit and Truth and be Loving all as God does
I said to love your neighbor as yourself, now Love your neighbor as I Jesus have loved you first
There is no Fear in love
1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

 

[SilverFox7]

Jesus told His disciples: "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore, be wise as serpents and harmless as doves" (Matt. 10: 16). We need a blend of both characteristics as we spread the good news to this broken world. It would be great if we didn't have to worry about getting robbed or being shot, but that's an unfortunate reality we face today. Our goal is to be harmless and loving, yet we also need to be cautious and on the defense. Solomon attained greatness and wisdom, but how did he feel about that?

Ecclesiastes 1:16-18

New King James Version

16 I communed with my heart, saying, “Look, I have attained greatness, and have gained more wisdom than all who were before me in Jerusalem. My heart has [a]understood great wisdom and knowledge.” 17 And I set my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is grasping for the wind.

18 For in much wisdom is much
grief,
And he who increases
knowledge increases sorrow.

I've been blessed to enjoy a 40 year career in industry and higher education, and I have learned a lot throughout the years. The old saying that "the more you learn, the more you realize how much you don't know" is an axiom. Where I'm most grateful is having a great pastor in my early twenties who encouraged me to make the Bible my foundation of knowledge and to keep my eyes focused on the Kingdom at all times. Without that, I would have been in the same boat as Solomon: very well educated and knowledgeable yet very sad and depressed at the same time.

I wonder why Solomon wanted to dive into madness and folly? It isn't any wonder why he was lamenting because we can only take in so much of the foolishness of this civilization. While I want to up to speed on world affairs and try to understand why people are so violent and unhappy, I try to do it with moderation. If I start getting too engrossed in the ways of this world, I start having a negative attitude. I need to stay grounded in the gospel and keep the armor of Christ on at all times.

I love verse 18 above, and it is certainly true. The most brilliant literature professor I had was also a bitter and negative person at times because she was an agnostic. One lecture she would provide insights that were mind blowing and the next lecture she would be ripping us to shreds for our sloppy research and writing. Seeking wisdom apart from God yields grief and sorrow. I need to build upon the solid foundation of the Rock.

 

[posthuman]

The pastor I referenced who gave that great sermon about Ecclesiastes said God gives us two choices in essence: learn to live life through revelation and follow God's Word. Or, live life through experimentation and learn the hard way of the emptiness and sorrow of life apart from God's Word.

but Solomon was not without God's word...

 

[homwardbound]

I need to build upon the solid foundation of the Rock.

You are and have been from the posts I have read from you.
Continue the "willing" by that people learn truth over error(s) here in this world
It is wise to be wise as a serpent, it is terrible to not remain harmless as a dove, once wise to the evil all around us
You that smell
There is a book called "The Screw tape Letters" by C.S. Lewis
It is deep, and not easy to comprehend, I had to read it over and over again at least ten times over time, to learn and not be taken over, seeing evil lose its grip in continued trust to Father (PaPa) knowing this: it is not "I" doing it, it is God doing it through me, I seeing me rest from my own works taught to do by this world first, that created worry, stress and no rest in the midst of troubles. Hebrews 4
Evil uses vanity, as God Father uses all is cleansed by God through Son for done once for everyone to believe it or not. Done once for all to begin new, in the risen Son Jesus
Evil uses vanity as is exposed to me in the movie "The Devils advocate" many Gold Nuggets I found in that movie.

If one does not know, the evil of doing things, like drinking too much, and has left that behind them. How can one help another in that same trouble if you had never experienced it?
Take care of our own boards in our own eye sight, once get that from God to be humble in it, Then one can see to remove the speck(s) in others sight God takes over between them and God and God removes the board(s) It is a personal relationship, God does just love us all, otherwise Christ would not have ever gone to that cross willingly or would he have? it begins at willing death, to see new in the risen Son and love all over just a few anymore as were taught to only love those that love you back. God love us all y'all, therefore what sense does it make to not love all in response. Once one knows they are new in God's sight for them through risen Son Jesus to them, one can see clearly in Spirit and Truth, given them not earned ever.
Doing this: settling it within themselves, God Father (PaPa) is the leader, and will use his willing people as vessels (Like at Pentecost), like we use water glasses as our vessels, to get a drink. We, at least me become God's water glass, full of living water and continually running over and blooming daily wherever planted that day
God leads not me or others placed in charge by this world. Note:
Be a fly on a wall see Moses and Jesus meet. Moses says to Jesus "Papers please" Jesus I am not a Levite. Therefore he had no papers, but John the Baptist that Baptized Jesus into the fold through water Baptism (John a Levite Priest), John's job immediately over. Jesus told John that he Jesus had to do all that was right first. After John said to Jesus, 'I" need to be Baptized by you
Amazing, the Law of Moses literally had to get fulfilled first, before any new life could ever enter. So Jesus did it at that cross and yelled in John 19:30 it s finished! We see Hebrews 7:11-12, at least me.
What is finished, the mosaic Law, it is fulfilled righteously by Jesus for the people everyone.

Left only for us to believe and stand in that done work done by Son for us, then we be new and not of self, since no other flesh can please Father ever.
then one becomes new having Obsessive compulsive behavior loving all, yes even enemies too
All means All to me at least thank you
Continue in your growing up new as God sees as if it is already done, as it is being shown you as is done. for you and all others too
Ever ask God why? Why are you continuing to be kind to me and not kill me a sinner that can't seem to let go od wrong doings
2 Corinthians 6:6

by pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,

Is how, my kindness is meant to lead us to a change of mindset, after getting na new heart given us in. the risen Son Jesus for us.
Ever notice God is not condemning g us, yet people are and even self has
Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodnessof God leadeth thee to repentance?


Therefore, I do not accuse or excuse anything anymore thanks trusting God to have helped

 

[homwardbound]

but Solomon was not without God's word...

Nor is anyone else
Paul did the work and left letters that we all have today to believe or not between God and self
Phil 3 has much to say about the doing works over only trust to Father in risen Son. Paul did not focus on Christ's earth walk as much as he focuses on the risen Life for us each to be given that from Father to us all, and thus love all
At least me I see this now

 

[posthuman]

Nor is anyone else
Paul did the work and left letters that we all have today to believe or not between God and self
Phil 3 has much to say about the doing works over only trust to Father in risen Son. Paul did not focus on Christ's earth walk as much as he focuses on the risen Life for us each to be given that from Father to us all, and thus love all
At least me I see this now

amen,

and it is because Solomon was not without God, that he was able by 'experiment' find out the heart of things, by wisdom. we are told also, 'test' every spirit, and that those who were noble 'searched' out the scripture, to see if what they heard was true.

i don't want to allow the impression that our religion requires us to blindly obey or believe: the apostles showed evidence through signs, and quoted the OT expansively - - Christianity is not an idiots religion, but a belief and a Way that we engage with, with our mind, and should constantly strengthen through study and meditation. God has given us a scripture full of deep mysteries and things hard to grasp, and that is not so that we should be complacent with our knowledge and coast along with it, but that we should use our minds and search Him out, forever awed by the depth and breadth of Him

the wise don't simply accept things without a second thought. they search them out, and find treasure. this is super clear in Solomons writing, and if you look through James' little epistle again, you see he is also spurring his audience to think about what they are doing, to test it and see.

 

[Magenta]

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 Remember Him before the silver cord is snapped and the golden bowl is
crushed, before the pitcher is shattered at the spring and the wheel is broken at the well, before the dust returns to the ground from which it came and the spirit returns to God Who gave it.
My most recent panel displays an Ecclesiastes verse... well, two actually.

 

[GWH]

I just so happened to be reading this by Paul in Colossians 1:9-14 before checking out this thread, "Since the day we heard about you we have not stopped praying for you, asking God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding... that you may life a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and joyfully giving thanks to the Father..."

(Well, you get the idea. Paul sure liked to write long sentences :^)