Testing gift of prophecy on christianchat.

[Burn1986]

We all want breakthroughs, we all need to learn patience. Learning to wait on God's timing, although hard at times, is the only way to life.

Isaiah 40:31
But those who wait on the Lord Shall renew their strength; They shall mount up with wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary, They shall walk and not faint.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Wow, that’s exactly what God gave me after a long fast recently.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

If you want breakthroughs practice these things

And for this same thing, employing all speed provide ​

1. excellence in your faith,
2. knowledge in excellence,
3. self-control in knowledge,
4. endurance in self-control,
5. godliness in endurance,
6. brotherly affection in godliness,
7. love in brotherly affection.

For these things belonging and increasing to you, make you stand not idle or unfruitful into the full knowledge of our lord Jesus Christ. For to whom these things aren't present is blind, closing his eyes, taking forgetfulness of the cleansing of his old sins. Through this rather, brothers, use speed to be making your calling and selection confirmed. For doing these things, by no means will you ever stumble. For thus the entrance into the unending kingdom of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ, will be richly supplied to you. 2 Peter 1:5-11​

 

[sawdust]

We have to consider what the gifts are for before we consider when they end

It's not all the gifts, it's only three. It's disingenuous when people don't make the distinction. 1 Cor. 13 states quite clearly which three gifts will end. Two fade away, knowledge and prophecy and tongues cease abruptly.

 

[Blain]

It's not all the gifts, it's only three. It's disingenuous when people don't make the distinction. 1 Cor. 13 states quite clearly which three gifts will end. Two fade away, knowledge and prophecy and tongues cease abruptly.

yeah except if you keep reading he talks about meeting Christ face to face so until this completeness happens when we see face to face like a mirror he talks about the completeness but what is this completeness he talks about? it seems to say that the completeness is all things when we meet him face to face

then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. he talks about love being the greatest gift for most of the passage but he talks a lot about now and then now if not for the face to face part maybe you would be right but what do you think he means by that?

 

[Blain]

not to mention knowledge has not ended

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

It's not all the gifts, it's only three. It's disingenuous when people don't make the distinction. 1 Cor. 13 states quite clearly which three gifts will end. Two fade away, knowledge and prophecy and tongues cease abruptly.

I agree with you most of the time, but not here. Let's look at the verses you're talking about:

1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Completeness hasn't come yet. Do you honestly think we've seen face to face and know God fully even as He fully knows us RIGHT NOW? No, we don't. None of us do. This is one of the reasons why there are so many denominations and why false teaching proliferates. But we will when He returns. Those gifts will end then, because we shall see Him face to face and no longer need those gifts because we will fully know Him and understand Him.


🎑

 

[Blain]

I agree with you most of the time, but not here. Let's look at the verses you're talking about:

1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Completeness hasn't come yet. Do you honestly think we've seen face to face and know God fully even as He fully knows us RIGHT NOW? No, we don't. None of us do. This is one of the reasons why there are so many denominations and why false teaching proliferates. But we will when He returns. Those gifts will end then, because we shall see Him face to face and no longer need those gifts because we will fully know Him and understand Him.


🎑

thank you for making my point

 

[Kroogz]

but don't christians operate in the gifts of the spirit today?

You bet they do. But those gifts preach and teach the mind of Christ. No need to use "signs and wonders"to prove His word .

 

[sawdust]

yeah except if you keep reading he talks about meeting Christ face to face so until this completeness happens when we see face to face like a mirror he talks about the completeness but what is this completeness he talks about? it seems to say that the completeness is all things when we meet him face to face

then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. he talks about love being the greatest gift for most of the passage but he talks a lot about now and then now if not for the face to face part maybe you would be right but what do you think he means by that?

Paul uses an advancing analogy. He first compares going from childhood to manhood which is analogous from going to having only the OT scriptures to having the completed NT scriptures as well, then going from our position now (looking into a mirror ie. the written word) to seeing Christ face to face which, is the eternal state. The passage is dealing with how one matures and what is needed to have prominence in that process while we are learning ie faith, hope and love.

1 Corinthians 13:10
But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

The word translated perfect in v.10 is in the single neuter gender. When the same word is used referring to a person, as in Eph.4:13, Col.1:28 it is in the singular male gender. If the "perfect" is referring to Christ it should be in the singular male, it is not.

If Paul meant Christ, he could just as easily have said "when Christ comes" but he did not.

James describes the Law (Torah) as "perfect" (Jm.1:25), same word used as in 1Cor.13:10.

Do you honestly believe when we see Christ face to face that all further knowledge of Him will stop? That our relationship will not continue to grow and develop?

There is nothing you can say (prophecy) or know (knowledge) regarding Christ that cannot be found in the scriptures. What else would you use to test the spirits? Your experience? Your understanding? Of course you wouldn't, not if you are wise.

As for the gift of tongues, it was a warning gift aimed at the nation of Israel. Their Messiah had come and they (as a nation) had rejected Him. When Jerusalem fell in 70AD, there was no longer any need to warn them, this is why a different word is used for the ceasing of tongues as compared to the other two gifts. With the other two, they could fade out gradually as the written word was disseminated.

1 Corinthians 14:21
In the law it is written: “With men of other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,” says the Lord.

 

[sawdust]

I agree with you most of the time, but not here. Let's look at the verses you're talking about:

1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Completeness hasn't come yet. Do you honestly think we've seen face to face and know God fully even as He fully knows us RIGHT NOW? No, we don't. None of us do. This is one of the reasons why there are so many denominations and why false teaching proliferates. But we will when He returns. Those gifts will end then, because we shall see Him face to face and no longer need those gifts because we will fully know Him and understand Him.


🎑

See my post of 249. Remember, Paul also uses the analogy of going from a child to a man as well.

 

[Blain]

Paul uses an advancing analogy. He first compares going from childhood to manhood which is analogous from going to having only the OT scriptures to having the completed NT scriptures as well, then going from our position now (looking into a mirror ie. the written word) to seeing Christ face to face which, is the eternal state. The passage is dealing with how one matures and what is needed to have prominence in that process while we are learning ie faith, hope and love.

1 Corinthians 13:10
But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

The word translated perfect in v.10 is in the single neuter gender. When the same word is used referring to a person, as in Eph.4:13, Col.1:28 it is in the singular male gender. If the "perfect" is referring to Christ it should be in the singular male, it is not.

If Paul meant Christ, he could just as easily have said "when Christ comes" but he did not.

James describes the Law (Torah) as "perfect" (Jm.1:25), same word used as in 1Cor.13:10.

Do you honestly believe when we see Christ face to face that all further knowledge of Him will stop? That our relationship will not continue to grow and develop?

There is nothing you can say (prophecy) or know (knowledge) regarding Christ that cannot be found in the scriptures. What else would you use to test the spirits? Your experience? Your understanding? Of course you wouldn't, not if you are wise.

As for the gift of tongues, it was a warning gift aimed at the nation of Israel. Their Messiah had come and they (as a nation) had rejected Him. When Jerusalem fell in 70AD, there was no longer any need to warn them, this is why a different word is used for the ceasing of tongues as compared to the other two gifts. With the other two, they could fade out gradually as the written word was disseminated.

1 Corinthians 14:21
In the law it is written: “With men of other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,” says the Lord.

how do you know perfect is a nutueral and not a male? and also if he meant the word he also could have just said that but he didn't he just said complete but in the entire passage he doesn't mention the word or it being imperfect you have to make it say that. I will re read it to make sure but I am pretty sure he doesn't mention it he just speaks on the gifts.

another thing is knowledge has not ended knowledge will not end as we continue to grow in the spirit as with wisdom these two gifts are mentioned in the chapeter before this one where he also speaks on the gifts neither wisdom nor knowledge has ended and prophecy is simply the knowledge of God being spoken to his people or more accurately it is his will being spoken to his people.

 

[Blade]

The prophecy I got was, the worlds last chance is coming.
I believe it means a revival.

Been around this all my life. But "revival" in as much as I agree yet is not found in the word the concept is. This makes me miss the bible study I was in when I was young where they would say .. this is the place to tes that gift what ever one so you knew what was of GOD and what was not.

He GOD left Heaven became man.. took all the sin of this world past, present and future. Last Chance? How do we define that? If we asked Him He would just say "did I not say in Rev". He warned the Churches already told us behold I come quickly.

Gifts.. you know when I was young .. everything was Jesus .. just Jesus. Very slowly I keep getting this thought.. haha man I still remember like yesterday "what about the Father". It was so soft .. just a very simple thought. He will never go against our will. Now others from the start knew about the Father the son and the sweet holy Spirit yet I didn't. Look how He talked to me about it.

I will say (most of you do not know how many people like me wish pray I could talk .. words like you guys do) after reading what someone said. After this life what will be hidden? We are not a angel we were created in His image. That word image we give mans definition of the word. We don't grasp at all what it means to be "one". Christ is in the Father the Father is in Christ and Christ is in us. Oh then the sweet sweet holy Spirit in us with us forever. To know the Holy Spirit right now this moment (AMP) "For God has unveiled them and revealed them to us through the [Holy] Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things [diligently], even [sounding and measuring] the [profound] depths of God [the divine counsels and things far beyond human understanding]. So within this thread just who is trying to make others see? He will never force anyone. " That is for us right now. After this life.. nothing is hidden.

So there is no more need for the "gifts" of the spirit.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Do you honestly believe when we see Christ face to face that all further knowledge of Him will stop? That our relationship will not continue to grow and develop?

Hmmm, not buying your explanations with word usage when Paul treats these gifts as continuing and not ending when the Bible is complete.

When we see Christ face to face when He returns, all the things we don't fully understand in the Bible right now (that are causing denominations and false teaching) will become clear. Why would we need to speak in tongues or prophecy or have knowledge when He will be right there at that time?

Tongues, prophecies and knowledge are for now because we don't see Him face to face right now AND have enemies that will try to disrupt communication with and from God. The Holy Spirit uses those gifts to help us know God's will in line with scripture.

I can understand if you're afraid that you'll be led astray and automatically dismiss them, but all you have to do is test the spirits to see if any of it lines up with scripture AND if the person follows God closely or not.

But if you really don't believe in these certain gifts of the Holy Spirit that is okay. Even Paul acknowledges that not everyone receives these gifts. I know very godly people who don't believe in these gifts or are too scared of them, but God still very much blesses them just as much as those very godly people who receive these gifts.


🎑

 

[sawdust]

how do you know perfect is a nutueral and not a male? and also if he meant the word he also could have just said that

You can look it up in the Greek. You assume Paul knew he was penning scripture when he wrote that.

he doesn't mention the word

Christ is the word. It is through the written word we come to know Him. Whatever is spoken must align with scripture if it is to be counted true.

another thing is knowledge has not ended knowledge will not end as we continue to grow in the spirit as with wisdom these two gifts are mentioned in the chapeter before this one where he also speaks on the gifts neither wisdom nor knowledge has ended and prophecy is simply the knowledge of God being spoken to his people or more accurately it is his will being spoken to his people.

Our personal knowledge of God is continually growing (hopefully) but that has nothing to do with the gift. Again I say, tell me something concerning the will of God or His future plans or some detail about His character or nature I can't know from scripture? This is why the two word gifts were given, to deepen believers understanding of who He is and what He plans beyond the OT. No-one expected the Church from the OT writings, it was a mystery. The gifts of prophecy and knowledge revealed that mystery.

Romans 16:25
Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began


You ignore one analogy to rely solely on another to make your case. Have you grown from a child to a man or is that still pending too?

 

[sawdust]

but all you have to do is test the spirits

ROFL

Really? Test the spirits against what exactly?

 

[sawdust]

When we see Christ face to face when He returns, all the things we don't fully understand in the Bible right now (that are causing denominations and false teaching) will become clear.

The gift of knowledge was never about our personal or corporate understanding. It is given to teach the things of God that were not covered in the OT especially regarding the Church.

 

[Blain]

You can look it up in the Greek. You assume Paul knew he was penning scripture when he wrote that.



Christ is the word. It is through the written word we come to know Him. Whatever is spoken must align with scripture if it is to be counted true.



Our personal knowledge of God is continually growing (hopefully) but that has nothing to do with the gift. Again I say, tell me something concerning the will of God or His future plans or some detail about His character or nature I can't know from scripture? This is why the two word gifts were given, to deepen believers understanding of who He is and what He plans beyond the OT. No-one expected the Church from the OT writings, it was a mystery. The gifts of prophecy and knowledge revealed that mystery.

Romans 16:25
Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began


You ignore one analogy to rely solely on another to make your case. Have you grown from a child to a man or is that still pending too?

Did you know his eyes are blue? did you know that his laughter is a hearty one? did you know he did not wear a white robe? these are things I came to know of him when I met him you won't find that in the written word but upon meeting him. and yes I do think Paul knew he was writing scripture because he was writing in the spirit and the spirit knows the will of God.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

ROFL

Really? Test the spirits against what exactly?

You apparently didn't read the rest of my sentence:

I can understand if you're afraid that you'll be led astray and automatically dismiss them, but all you have to do is test the spirits to see if any of it lines up with scripture AND if the person follows God closely or not.

I don't understand why what I wrote hit a nerve in you that you couldn't even finish reading that sentence.


🎑

 

[Blain]

The gift of knowledge was never about our personal or corporate understanding. It is given to teach the things of God that were not covered in the OT especially regarding the Church.

that is completely wrong my friend the gofts of knowledge is nowhere mentioned to be that you cannot just add meaning or take away meaning knowledge is for the use of knowing him wisdom is to know how to use that knowledge where in the word is it written that it was for what the ot lacked? where do you get that from the gift of knowledge?

 

[sawdust]

I can understand if you're afraid that you'll be led astray and automatically dismiss them

And because I don't want you to be ignorant, as you have no idea what I have faced in my life, please read the following passage.

Luke 10:17-20
17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

I know with absolute certainty my name is written in heaven.

James 4:7
Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.


Thanks be to God the Father through Jesus Christ the Lord!