Slain in the spirit?

[Blain]

This response alone would be a pretty good indication that biblical signs and wonders have ended.

then why was my foot healed when it should have not been able to walk on again? If miracels and signs and wonders have ened or did you just mean signs and wonders but not miracles?

 

[Genez]

then why was my foot healed when it should have not been able to walk on again? If miracels and signs and wonders have ened or did you just mean signs and wonders but not miracles?

God healed me of pleurisy after being prayed for.

But no one claimed to have the gift of healing, and the teaching from that ministry was sound.
The doctor who took my X-rays gave me a double take...

 

[Edify]

 

[wolfwint]

The laughing & animal voices came AFTER the charismatic movement in 1967. Before then, Pentecostals didn't do it, & nothing like that in 1900's Germany.
Carefully do research before making statements as truth.

Maby you read this
Part 1
Charles Parham
Edith Blumhofer writes about the influence of Frank Sandford on Charles Parham: "Parham built his Bible school on the model of a Bible school he had come across on his travels. It was located in Maine and had been founded in 1895 by Frank Sandford, a former Free Baptist minister. The Holy Ghost and Us Bible School was part of his plan to bring about the 'restoration of all things' and to establish the Kingdom of God. Parham's encounter with Sandford was crucial to the emergence of Pentecostalism; this little-known person had anticipated much of what Pentecostalism would become known for." [5]
It was at Frank Sandford's Bible school that Charles Parham first heard the supposed speaking in tongues. After many hours of prayer, students descended from a prayer tower and spoke in new tongues, which of course was nothing more than an imitation of the true biblical speaking in tongues. So we are still about 10 years before the emergence of the Pentecostal movement, around the year 1895.
Charles Parham was carried away by Frank Sandford's false spirit and founded his own movement, Apostolic Faith . Following the example of Frank Sandford's Bible school, Parham founded his own Bible school. Parham was convinced that the return of Christ and a great outpouring of the Spirit and revival were imminent. In his view, the experience of the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the subsequent sign of speaking in tongues was essential for the evangelization and mission of the world. He understood speaking in tongues as an unlearned foreign language that the Holy Spirit imparted in a supernatural way during the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Agnes Ozman was the first Bible student at Charles Parham's Bible school to speak in "new tongues" on January 1, 1901, supposedly Chinese. "Parham claimed that Ozman had spoken Chinese for three days and could neither speak nor write English during those three days. Ozman later confirmed this..." [6] However, two independent witnesses state that she had prayed in English at the Topeka Mission on January 2. [7] She is also said to have written Chinese in an act of automatic writing. Neither of these has ever been confirmed. The original document of the automatic writing with the alleged "Chinese characters" is guarded by Pentecostals like a relic and can be viewed on the Internet. [8] To date, no one has been found who has been able to decipher the scribble, which is more reminiscent of ancient cuneiform inscriptions. Parham interpreted the speaking in "new tongues" as biblical proof of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This teaching later became one of the fundamental teachings of most Pentecostal movements.
Parhams of Häresien
Parham's teachings are a mixture of speculation, misguided reasoning, and biblical references. According to Parham, God created the first man on the sixth day of creation. This first man - the sons and daughters of God - had the following characteristics: He was created in God's image and possessed eternal human life. He exercised dominion and authority over the world and was to multiply and populate the earth. The first man was a "son of God," Eve a "daughter of God," and lived in Nod.
On the 7th day of creation, everything was fine. On the 8th day of creation, however, God realized that there was no one to till the land of the earth. To remedy this situation, God created a second human race, the Adamic race. This race was characterized by the following features: It was created from the earth (not according to a heavenly model) and lived in Eden. It was mortal, but had the possibility of receiving eternal life. Its task was to till the land of the earth, but not to exercise dominion over it. This Adamic race was inferior to the sons and daughters of God.
The Adamic race lived in Eden, while the sons of God, who were created on the 6th day of creation, lived in the land of Nod. But then Cain killed his brother Abel and fled from Eden to Nod. There Cain settled and took a wife from among the daughters of God. Now what God never wanted had happened - the mixing of the two races, that is, the original human race, the "sons and daughters of God", with the Adamic race. As a result of this mixing, God sent the Flood upon mankind.
Parham formulated his own racial theory and divided humanity into three major categories: Jews, non-Jews and Gentiles:
(1) Jews were all those who had Abraham as their ancestors. These included the Hindus, the Japanese, the German nobility, the Danes, the Scandinavians, the Anglo-Saxons and their descendants in all parts of the world. These are the nations who had deep spiritual insights because they had descended from Abraham.
(2) The non-Jews include Russians, Greeks, Italians, the German people, French, Spanish and their descendants. These were nations that were influenced by Martin Luther and his doctrine of justification and by John Wesley and his doctrine of sanctification.
(3) Gentiles are the Black Race, the Brown Race, the Red Race, the Yellow Race, who are unreceptive to the Gospel.
Leslie Callahan writes of Parham's unbiblical racial ideology: "These contradictory ideas are irreconcilable and show that Parham was not exactly a methodical thinker. And more crucially, this reveals a deep ambivalence about race, about racial social interaction, and about how the 'non-Israelite' peoples, the Gentiles, can participate in the highest levels of spiritual life." [9]
Parham and the End Times
Parham, like many Christians of his time, believed that the end of days had come and the Antichrist would appear. But just before the total collapse of the USA, God would intervene and send an army of angels. Parham wrote in his book A Voice Crying in the Wilderness :
"The angel, with the word 'Union' above his head and holding our national flag in one hand and a sword in the other, descended from heaven, accompanied by a legion of luminous spirits. These immediately joined the people of America, who were on the verge of defeat, but who immediately took courage, closed ranks, and resumed the fight. The mysterious angel drew water from the ocean and sprinkled it over America. Immediately the dark cloud withdrew, along with the armies it had brought with it, and the people of the country gained victory." [10]
In this vision of America's future, Parham draws on three sources: (1) the biblical book of Daniel (2) the apocryphal extra-biblical book of Ezra (3) a controversial vision of George Washington, the first president of the United States, from the time of the Revolutionary War, which was later repeatedly taken up by Pentecostals.
Inspired by the Catholic mystic Madame Guyon, he believed that an aura of blessings emanated from the bodies of sanctified people. Once these blessings from the supernatural world were in the atmosphere of this world, other people could absorb these blessings.
Parham divided Christians into different categories:
(1) The redeemed are specially equipped for world evangelization. Like Jesus after his resurrection, they have the power to appear and become invisible again. They can also overcome time and space to get to certain places. They were considered immune to extreme weather conditions (heat and cold). They would lead the end-time revival with signs, wonders and mighty deeds in the tribulation period.
(2) However, the bride had a special mission: she was the remnant that would go with the Jews to Palestine to establish the State of Israel. While in Jerusalem, the bride would give birth to a male child and flee from the Antichrist into the desert to wait for Christ. The bride was to meet Christ in the air, marry him, and reign with him as his queen in the Millennial Kingdom.
(3) The Man -Child of Revelation 12 was an elite group, the "overcomers." This group consisted of 144,000 people who had the privilege of being the only group to be raptured in the last three and a half years of the seven-year tribulation period and who will occupy a rank directly below Christ and the 12 Chief Apostles in the Millennium.

 

[wolfwint]

The laughing & animal voices came AFTER the charismatic movement in 1967. Before then, Pentecostals didn't do it, & nothing like that in 1900's Germany.
Carefully do research before making statements as truth.

Part 2
Parham was the first to write the doctrine of Holy Spirit baptism
Parham was the first to formulate the doctrine of "baptism of the Spirit." Baptism of the Spirit was far superior to the "anointing" of ordinary Christians and was confirmed by speaking in tongues, i.e. a foreign language that had not been learned. He himself allegedly spoke "Yiddish" and hoped to be involved in the evangelization of the Jews in Jerusalem.
Since Parham was the first to teach the doctrine of baptism in the Spirit, confirmed by speaking in tongues, he is considered by a number of Pentecostals to be the true father of the Pentecostal movement. For example, the Pentecostal Paul Schmidgall (Volksmission) writes: "Parham's special significance for the classical Pentecostal movement lies in the fact that he taught speaking in tongues as the first sign of baptism in the Spirit. Parham was the father of this core doctrine of the classical Pentecostal movement." [11]
Schmidgall wants to prove, among other things, by quoting Irenaeus (d. around 200), that "charismatic activities" of the Holy Spirit, i.e. the exercise of early Christian spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues, were also carried out after the death of the last apostle. However, the reference to Book III, Chapter 12:1, of his work Contra Haereses (Against Heresies) contains nothing more than the fulfillment of the promise of the coming of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2. [12] No one questions this biblical event. However, the decisive factor remains the salvation-historical classification of the event of Pentecost, which cannot be extended to the entire salvation period of the church.
Schmidgall's brief description of Charles Parham and his student Agnes Ozman also gives the impression that they experienced the authentic work of the Holy Spirit. The fact that Parham's teachings and life were extremely controversial and that there is still no evidence of the alleged speaking in tongues in Chinese - and automatic writing in Chinese (!) - is not even taken into consideration. In this way, the reader is presented with a glorified picture of the beginnings of the Pentecostal movement by assuming quite naturally that these events were the true work of the Holy Spirit. But Jesus had already warned his listeners: "You will recognize them by their fruits..." (Matthew 7:16-17).
Parham and Healing
Schmidgall further mentions that Parham "survived a bout of rheumatic fever," which "convinced him of the doctrine of healing," [13] but fails to provide any evidence that this was the case. The Beth-El Healing Center founded by Parham is also no proof of the doctrine that God has provided a healing ministry for the church today that corresponds to the early Christian gift of healing. In fact, Parham was plagued by illness his entire life, although he preached divine healing and was certain that healing was part of the redemptive work of Jesus Christ. Two of his sons died, one at 1 year old and another at 37. The death of 9-year-old Nettie Smith caused a stir; her father refused to give her medicine because he believed that Parham's prayer for healing for his daughter would be answered.
James Goff, Parham's biographer, describes Parham's death as follows, demystifying the image of a spirit-filled Christian whose walk was constantly accompanied by miracles and signs due to the baptism of the Holy Spirit: "The man who founded their theological identity [the Pentecostals] nearly three decades ago lost himself amid scandals and doctrinal disputes. The end-time awakening of the masses that had promised Christian unity in 1901 never came to fruition. Instead, a divided movement of Pentecostal sects arose..." [14] Heresies, false prophecies, denominational schisms, suspicions of sexual abuse, complicity in the death of 9-year-old Nettie Smith, and Parham's support of the racist and violent secret society Ku Klux Klan are far from testifying to the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
Charles Parham, who had drunk from Frank Sandford's murky springs, was the one who subsequently influenced William Seymour. William Seymour took over the teachings of Holy Spirit baptism and speaking in tongues from Charles Parham. The springs of the Pentecostal movement that emerged in 1906 were thus impure from the very beginning. The spring does not flow sweet and bitter from the same opening (James 3:11).
William Joseph Seymour
William Seymour was born on May 2, 1870, in Louisiana to former slaves and was raised in the Catholic faith. Later, he and his siblings were baptized and became members of a local Baptist church. Even as a child, he was known to have spiritual dreams and visions. At age 25, he moved to Indianapolis and joined the Church of God , a denomination that had emerged from the holiness movement.
In 1903 he worked as a preacher in Texas and Louisiana. He visited a Holiness movement church in Houston led by preacher Lucy Farrow. In 1905 he finally took over the leadership of this black church, as Lucy Farrow was temporarily serving as governess for Charles Parham in Kansas. In this way William Seymour was introduced to Charles Parham and his teachings.
In December 1905, Charles Parham opened a short-term Bible school in Houston, which was only open to whites. Despite the racial segregation laws of the time, Seymour, as a black man, was allowed to attend under special conditions - Seymour sat in the hallway during lectures and listened to Parham through the open door. It was during this time that Seymour first heard and adopted Parham's teaching on baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Julia Hutchins, pastor of a small holiness church in Los Angeles, had contacts with Lucy Farrow and through these contacts Hutchins approached Seymour to ask him to take over the pastorate of her church because she intended to serve in the mission field. Parham was reluctant to let Seymour go, but eventually gave him his blessing. Seymour arrived in Los Angeles on February 22, 1906. Just a few days later he was denied service in his new church because he brought Parham's teaching on baptism in the Holy Spirit into the church.
Some members were so impressed with Seymour and the new teachings that a house meeting was formed with some members of this congregation. Between April 9 and 12, 1906, the supposed "breakthrough" came. Seymour and other people were "touched by the Spirit" and "spoke in new tongues." This happened in the Asberrys' home on Bonnie Brae Street. The growing group moved to 312 Azusa Street, where they held their first meeting on April 14. Azusa Street is considered the birthplace of the American Pentecostal movement.

 

[wolfwint]

The laughing & animal voices came AFTER the charismatic movement in 1967. Before then, Pentecostals didn't do it, & nothing like that in 1900's Germany.
Carefully do research before making statements as truth.

Part 3
Very early in October 1906, half a year after the outbreak of the "revival," it became clear that tensions had arisen between Seymour and Parham. Charles Parham, who was strongly critical of much of what was happening on Azusa Street, was banned from the Azusa Street building in October 1906 after his visit. But what exactly was the reason for taking such drastic measures? Sarah Parham, Charles Parham's wife, remembers that time. In her biography of her husband's life, she summarizes her husband's memories: "I rushed to get to Los Angeles and I was extremely amazed and surprised, for the circumstances I found exceeded my worst fears...carnal manifestations, spiritistic control. I saw some who had come forward to the altar to be baptized with the Holy Spirit being hypnotized, while several were actually filled with the Holy Spirit. After I had preached two or three times, I was told by two of the elders that my presence was no longer desired." [15] Seymour, who had been Parham's student, refused to be corrected by Parham. Roberts Liardon summarizes the events in his book God's Generals with these words: "As Parham attended the service, he watched with horror what was happening around him... At the Azusa Street Mission, the people were not only dancing and shouting, they were also twitching and shaking. The atmosphere was highly emotionally charged." [16]
By 1909, the flow of visitors to Azusa Street was decreasing. William Seymour began a traveling ministry among predominantly black congregations and lost more and more influence as spiritual leader of the Pentecostal movement in the following years. In 1915, he published a book entitled The Doctrines and Discipline of the Azusa Street Apostolic Faith Mission of Los Angeles . On the first page of the foreword, the father of the American Pentecostal movement warns: "... this work will be an open door for witches and spiritualists... ravenous wolves can enter any community through the sign of speaking in tongues." [17]
The Pentecostal Movement in Germany
The Pentecostal movement spread quickly throughout the world, including in German-speaking countries, where the heartland had been prepared primarily by the wing of the Holiness Movement. After months of hesitation, the sober brothers of the pietistic community movement in Germany responded after a mammoth 19-hour meeting in 1909 with the Berlin Declaration and distanced themselves from the Pentecostal movement. Some of the signatories of this declaration, such as August Dallmeyer, were initially convinced that the emerging Pentecostal movement was a genuine revival and even took part in Pentecostal meetings. But they quickly realized from the fruits that it could not be the Holy Spirit who was at work in this movement. They withdrew from the Pentecostal movement and, after careful consideration, signed the Berlin Declaration .
August Dallmeyer wrote about the time when he was drawn into the Pentecostal movement by this false spirit: "I myself allowed myself to be blinded by it for a while, but, thank the Lord, I escaped from its hands again. I have learned much, much, and as much as I regret the deception and my lack of vigilance and had to bow before the Lord, I thank God that He allowed me to get to know Satan better through this movement than ever before in my life." [18] Any sincere person can be seduced. But only the seduced who is sincere will return to the path of truth.
The preacher and evangelist Johannes Seitz (1839-1922), also a signatory of the Berlin Declaration , believed at the beginning of the Pentecostal movement that a correction and thus a recovery of the movement was still possible. After almost fifty years in the service of his Lord, he was sober enough not to make a hasty judgment about this new movement. Seitz was not a man of soft compromises. In the course of his 50 years of following in the fight for biblical truths, he had matured and demanded that the leading representatives of the Pentecostal movement examine their teachings and actions on the basis of Scripture. He decided to write a letter to the Pentecostal brothers and to conscientiously exercise his watchmanship as a faithful follower of Christ. In this letter he states:
"In contrast to these biblical visions, apparitions, revelations, and visions, there is the fact that there are so many visions, revelations, apparitions, and raptures that are very similar to the biblical ones, but out of a hundred of them, ninety-nine are always from evil spirits, from satanic angels who disguise themselves as angels of light. These false revelations and apparitions are so horribly widespread, especially in our day, and have so many forms that it is completely in the air. Stilling said as early as the 18th century that Satan would disguise himself in the holiest of masks before his fall in order to seduce the elect.
I have been working as a missionary for fifty years now, and previously travelled from the south to the north of Germany, and everywhere I found people who, when they had been converted and had received life from above and the spirit of God, were deceived by false revelations and apparitions, where Christ or angels appeared to them; and all or almost all who were deceived by false spirits went astray, into fanaticism, into pious megalomania, and some were even possessed by the devil. I have had several people in our institutions who were possessed or mentally ill; they had apparitions where Christ or an angel appeared to them. These apparitions were often glorious, wonderful, very similar to the biblical apparitions. Because they believed these false apparitions of Christ and angels, they came under the control of an arrogant fanatic spirit. It then cost many struggles before they were freed again.
…
Oh, how many, many allow themselves to be fooled and then go astray and become tools of false spirits. This has taught us that everything that does not agree exactly with the Word of God should be rejected and not accepted. Where in the Bible does one read that people upon whom the Spirit of God came fell on their backs, distorted their figures, trembled, and behaved unruly?
…
You can see what responsibility you take on when things come into the movement that are no longer scriptural, sober and genuine. It doesn't even take a lot of false, unbiblical, and insober things to come in, 'a little leaven soon leavens the whole lump', says the Scripture. Raptures, revelations, and apparitions are as cheap as blackberries with us, and there would be many more of them if we paid attention to them and did not fight against these things. I hope you will soon realize that it is a piece of true brotherly love to point out dangers that one has learned from thousands of experiences.
In true brotherly love, yours in the Lord, Johannes Seitz.” [19]
Johannes Seitz's letter did not fall on a receptive ear. When he realized that this movement was not from above, but from below, and that its misleading influence was spreading, he signed the Berlin Declaration in 1909 .

 

[wolfwint]

The laughing & animal voices came AFTER the charismatic movement in 1967. Before then, Pentecostals didn't do it, & nothing like that in 1900's Germany.
Carefully do research before making statements as truth.

Part 4
Speaking in Tongues
When the first Pentecostal missionaries returned from the mission field in 1907 and 1908, they had to bow to reality. Their speaking in tongues was not the national language of the country they wanted to evangelize, as they had been falsely taught. Instead of bowing to God's Word and examining the Scriptures to see if they were as they had been taught, they simply changed their own theology. From then on, speaking in tongues was simply a prayer language for personal edification. The misguided brothers did not want to bow to reality or the word of the Holy Scriptures, but rather they bent the Scriptures.
Paul Fleisch writes in his book History of the Pentecostal Movement in Germany from 1900 to 1950 with regard to the speaking in tongues of the early Pentecostals: "It should be noted that these reports assume that they were speaking in foreign languages, so that people looked for similarities from the outset, and that the reports are usually very inaccurate: 'Some thought I had spoken Spanish,' or: 'The wife of a preacher of the Free Methodist Church went through a massive baptism by speaking something like Chinese.' Much of this has clearly turned out to be self-deception; Seitz later stated very clearly and soberly: 'None of the missionaries who went out could speak a single word in the language of these countries. A woman who spoke in tongues, who thought her speech was Arabic and therefore felt called to the Arab mission, had to admit her error in Gibraltar when she first met Arabs. An expert in West African languages was asked from America to examine a gifted person who did not know where in West Africa her language was spoken while travelling in England. He heard nothing familiar, recorded the language phonetically and later presented the sentences to the gifted person again: she had no idea what she had spoken. The examiner, however, found echoes of Spanish and Portuguese, and it turned out that someone had previously wanted to teach her Spanish." [20]
SC Todd, a member of the Bible Missionary Society in Macao, investigated this type of missionary service using tongues. He went to great lengths to investigate the ministry of the Garrs and other Pentecostal missionaries. He wrote newsletters and articles in which he raised serious objections to Parham's teaching on Spirit baptism and speaking in tongues. After his investigations, he concluded: "At no time was any known language spoken, everything consisted of unknown utterances." [21]
In October 1912, EN Bell, the American president of the Pentecostal Assemblies of God , rejected the idea that speaking in tongues was a foreign language that could be used for missionary work. Bell described this teaching as naive and demanded that missionaries should be better prepared for their service by being instructed in theology, mission and, of course, the languages and customs of the countries to which they were to be sent. Nevertheless, he followed Pentecostal theology, according to which speaking in tongues was a sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
The enormous growth of the Pentecostal movement was not a genuine revival through the work of the Holy Spirit. Countless Christians who joined the Pentecostal movement came from the Holiness movement or other denominations. It was primarily in the Holiness movement that the heart had been prepared for the end-time expectation of an outpouring of the Spirit, which was then embraced with open arms by many who were not grounded in the Word. The Christian and Missionary Alliance in the USA alone lost over a third of its members to the Pentecostal movement.

This what is mentioned in this report is more then enough to questioning this movement.
This withh the animals, i will find. Not everybody reports about the details.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Part 4
Speaking in Tongues
When the first Pentecostal missionaries returned from the mission field in 1907 and 1908, they had to bow to reality. Their speaking in tongues was not the national language of the country they wanted to evangelize, as they had been falsely taught. Instead of bowing to God's Word and examining the Scriptures to see if they were as they had been taught, they simply changed their own theology. From then on, speaking in tongues was simply a prayer language for personal edification. The misguided brothers did not want to bow to reality or the word of the Holy Scriptures, but rather they bent the Scriptures.
Paul Fleisch writes in his book History of the Pentecostal Movement in Germany from 1900 to 1950 with regard to the speaking in tongues of the early Pentecostals: "It should be noted that these reports assume that they were speaking in foreign languages, so that people looked for similarities from the outset, and that the reports are usually very inaccurate: 'Some thought I had spoken Spanish,' or: 'The wife of a preacher of the Free Methodist Church went through a massive baptism by speaking something like Chinese.' Much of this has clearly turned out to be self-deception; Seitz later stated very clearly and soberly: 'None of the missionaries who went out could speak a single word in the language of these countries. A woman who spoke in tongues, who thought her speech was Arabic and therefore felt called to the Arab mission, had to admit her error in Gibraltar when she first met Arabs. An expert in West African languages was asked from America to examine a gifted person who did not know where in West Africa her language was spoken while travelling in England. He heard nothing familiar, recorded the language phonetically and later presented the sentences to the gifted person again: she had no idea what she had spoken. The examiner, however, found echoes of Spanish and Portuguese, and it turned out that someone had previously wanted to teach her Spanish." [20]
SC Todd, a member of the Bible Missionary Society in Macao, investigated this type of missionary service using tongues. He went to great lengths to investigate the ministry of the Garrs and other Pentecostal missionaries. He wrote newsletters and articles in which he raised serious objections to Parham's teaching on Spirit baptism and speaking in tongues. After his investigations, he concluded: "At no time was any known language spoken, everything consisted of unknown utterances." [21]
In October 1912, EN Bell, the American president of the Pentecostal Assemblies of God , rejected the idea that speaking in tongues was a foreign language that could be used for missionary work. Bell described this teaching as naive and demanded that missionaries should be better prepared for their service by being instructed in theology, mission and, of course, the languages and customs of the countries to which they were to be sent. Nevertheless, he followed Pentecostal theology, according to which speaking in tongues was a sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
The enormous growth of the Pentecostal movement was not a genuine revival through the work of the Holy Spirit. Countless Christians who joined the Pentecostal movement came from the Holiness movement or other denominations. It was primarily in the Holiness movement that the heart had been prepared for the end-time expectation of an outpouring of the Spirit, which was then embraced with open arms by many who were not grounded in the Word. The Christian and Missionary Alliance in the USA alone lost over a third of its members to the Pentecostal movement.

This what is mentioned in this report is more then enough to questioning this movement.
This withh the animals, i will find. Not everybody reports about the details.

I find it interesting that it wasn't until after the spectacular failure of these missionaries that the shift started from unknown human languages to angelic languages and ecstatic utterances. If a person is supposed to be speaking a human language, it's too easy to prove they're not.

 

[Genez]

I find it interesting that it wasn't until after the spectacular failure of these missionaries that the shift started from unknown human languages to angelic languages and ecstatic utterances. If a person is supposed to be speaking a human language, it's too easy to prove they're not.

Speaking in tongues today is the Adam Schiff of Christianity...

 

[Wansvic]

Well the dividing of the word I am talking about it is all the chaotic different denominations and doctrines based on a certain way of interporeting the word. for me if there is one truth and nothing but the truth then all this division within the body should not exist if there is one spirit of truth then all this interpretations supposively from the same spirit should not exist all the discord you see in this forum alone should not exist

A big problem is many people have become lazy. Many faithfully follow denominational teachings, or rely on other's opinions rather than searching out what God has to say on a subject.

Jesus said it is those who hunger and thirst after righteousness that will be filled; meaning those who wish to be filled must be willing to search the word. (Matt. 5:6, 2 Tim. 3:16) And Jude actually gave instructions concerning where to look for the common salvation. He strongly urged people to search out what was first delivered to the apostles. (Jude 3) This points directly to the gospel message initially presented in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2, 33, 36-42) It was on that day that the NT rebirth via water and Spirit became possible for people. The same message was then carried forth to many others. (Acts 8, 10, 19, 22, etc) After being reborn it is the indwelling presence of God's Holy Spirit that guides people into all truth: "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. " (John 16:13)

Another key in establishing whether a belief is accurate is that the biblical concept will be confirmed by 2-3 scriptures. For the Word says so: “…at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.” (Deut 19:15, 2 Cor. 13:1, Matt 18:16) An example: water baptism is to be administered in the name of Jesus. As all detailed accounts reveal, it is the only way NT baptism was administered. (Acts 2:38, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

 

[Wansvic]

The following very confident men were sure they were not wrong...
They did everything in Jesus name!

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name ​

and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Matthew 7:22​

Go look at the context.
They will sent to Hell!

Jesus provided an explanation of exactly what their problem was, they neglected to lay the required foundation upon the rock. (Jesus) (Matt. 7:25, and again in Luke 6:48) Details of the required foundation are provided in Hebrews 6:1-2. They point to what was first presented at Pentecost and later carried to all groups of humanity. (Acts 2, 4, 33, 38-42)

 

[Blain]

A big problem is many people have become lazy. Many faithfully follow denominational teachings, or rely on other's opinions rather than searching out what God has to say on a subject.

Jesus said it is those who hunger and thirst after righteousness that will be filled; meaning those who wish to be filled must be willing to search the word. (Matt. 5:6, 2 Tim. 3:16) And Jude actually gave instructions concerning where to look for the common salvation. He strongly urged people to search out what was first delivered to the apostles. (Jude 3) This points directly to the gospel message initially presented in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2, 33, 36-42) It was on that day that the NT rebirth via water and Spirit became possible for people. The same message was then carried forth to many others. (Acts 8, 10, 19, 22, etc) After being reborn it is the indwelling presence of God's Holy Spirit that guides people into all truth: "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. " (John 16:13)

Another key in establishing whether a belief is accurate is that the biblical concept will be confirmed by 2-3 scriptures. For the Word says so: “…at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.” (Deut 19:15, 2 Cor. 13:1, Matt 18:16) An example: water baptism is to be administered in the name of Jesus. As all detailed accounts reveal, it is the only way NT baptism was administered. (Acts 2:38, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

you know you make some good points, I am not ok with all this confusion on what the word of God is and says at least not in my own heart I cannot speak for others, if a verse doesn't make sense to me then I cannot make any assumption or interpretation unless God himself shows me because it is to easy to spin our own beliefs into the word and make it say something it isn't. there is one truth not many one doctrine not many one word of God one body one spirit of truth a lot of ones

 

[Genez]

Well the dividing of the word I am talking about it is all the chaotic different denominations and doctrines based on a certain way of interporeting the word. for me if there is one truth and nothing but the truth then all this division within the body should not exist if there is one spirit of truth then all this interpretations supposively from the same spirit should not exist all the discord you see in this forum alone should not exist

That is why Jesus said....

Many are saved (called) but few are chosen (to serve with Him.)

But... Only a few will find it.

Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads ​

to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow ​

and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.​

​

Matthew 7:13-14​

It's true.

 

[Genez]

Jesus provided an explanation of exactly what their problem was, they neglected to lay the required foundation upon the rock. (Jesus) (Matt. 7:25, and again in Luke 6:48) Details of the required foundation are provided in Hebrews 6:1-2. They point to what was first presented at Pentecost and later carried to all groups of humanity. (Acts 2, 4, 33, 38-42)

That was not the problem they were having....

The real problem was that there was a supernatural invisible power at work.
One that was not of God.
But, the person showcasing this effect?
Was using Jesus name for things Satan was have happen.

With, false doctrines to follow.

.......

 

[Edify]

Part 4
Speaking in Tongues
When the first Pentecostal missionaries returned from the mission field in 1907 and 1908, they had to bow to reality. Their speaking in tongues was not the national language of the country they wanted to evangelize, as they had been falsely taught. Instead of bowing to God's Word and examining the Scriptures to see if they were as they had been taught, they simply changed their own theology. From then on, speaking in tongues was simply a prayer language for personal edification. The misguided brothers did not want to bow to reality or the word of the Holy Scriptures, but rather they bent the Scriptures.
Paul Fleisch writes in his book History of the Pentecostal Movement in Germany from 1900 to 1950 with regard to the speaking in tongues of the early Pentecostals: "It should be noted that these reports assume that they were speaking in foreign languages, so that people looked for similarities from the outset, and that the reports are usually very inaccurate: 'Some thought I had spoken Spanish,' or: 'The wife of a preacher of the Free Methodist Church went through a massive baptism by speaking something like Chinese.' Much of this has clearly turned out to be self-deception; Seitz later stated very clearly and soberly: 'None of the missionaries who went out could speak a single word in the language of these countries. A woman who spoke in tongues, who thought her speech was Arabic and therefore felt called to the Arab mission, had to admit her error in Gibraltar when she first met Arabs. An expert in West African languages was asked from America to examine a gifted person who did not know where in West Africa her language was spoken while travelling in England. He heard nothing familiar, recorded the language phonetically and later presented the sentences to the gifted person again: she had no idea what she had spoken. The examiner, however, found echoes of Spanish and Portuguese, and it turned out that someone had previously wanted to teach her Spanish." [20]
SC Todd, a member of the Bible Missionary Society in Macao, investigated this type of missionary service using tongues. He went to great lengths to investigate the ministry of the Garrs and other Pentecostal missionaries. He wrote newsletters and articles in which he raised serious objections to Parham's teaching on Spirit baptism and speaking in tongues. After his investigations, he concluded: "At no time was any known language spoken, everything consisted of unknown utterances." [21]
In October 1912, EN Bell, the American president of the Pentecostal Assemblies of God , rejected the idea that speaking in tongues was a foreign language that could be used for missionary work. Bell described this teaching as naive and demanded that missionaries should be better prepared for their service by being instructed in theology, mission and, of course, the languages and customs of the countries to which they were to be sent. Nevertheless, he followed Pentecostal theology, according to which speaking in tongues was a sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
The enormous growth of the Pentecostal movement was not a genuine revival through the work of the Holy Spirit. Countless Christians who joined the Pentecostal movement came from the Holiness movement or other denominations. It was primarily in the Holiness movement that the heart had been prepared for the end-time expectation of an outpouring of the Spirit, which was then embraced with open arms by many who were not grounded in the Word. The Christian and Missionary Alliance in the USA alone lost over a third of its members to the Pentecostal movement.

This what is mentioned in this report is more then enough to questioning this movement.
This withh the animals, i will find. Not everybody reports about the details.

There is much inaccuracy with the article.
For instance, the Azusa revival lasted to 1916, not 1909.
The problem between Seymore & Parham was Parham himself over the Pentecostal doctrine. Parham left on his own accord. It seemed that Parham didn't like that Seymore got the revival instead of him. He broke off & started his own work. What he did after that I don't know.
One who wrote extensively on the movement was Frank Bartleman.
The main actual revival happened on Azusa street. The works of Parham himself is questionable with problems with the law & such.
Also, there were problems with some within the Azusa ministry with those who faked the tongues & even witches attended the services. Seymour dealt with this directly from the pulpit. Bartleman's writings confirm this.
When things like this happen, you will read anti-azusa materials from mockers & dissenters.
I do not know about Germany, but from what you found it's more from Parham than Azusa street.
There's many writings on Azusa street, many for & a few against.
From the witness accounts of Azusa, they confirm the movement was real & multitudes of ministries came from it. People came from all over the world to be changed & went back to their churches taking their revival experience with them.
It is true many ministers lost their churches because of this, but they started new churches as well.
One thing about Azusa in your article was that it was treated as a footnote, not the main subject as it was worthy of, because their information was both limited & inaccurate.

 

[Edify]

Those from the anti- Azusa group will have one thing in common: they wrote of different things happening that they could not agree on. In Jesus' day the scribes & pharisees did the same thing.

 

[Edify]

When most christians today research a thing, it's limited because they're only looking for agreeable articles.
You can't do REAL research for a couple of days or even weeks. One has to read nearly hundreds of articles, searching first for those that are written word for word, & discard them whether for or against, because they're false teachers trying to make a living off the controversies.
Then, divide up the fors & againsts, counting each. Usually the ones who have the most are overwhelmingly higher and true.
Then research again the ones that lost. you will usually find most of them don't agree on what are supposed to be the facts.
While doing this, be prayful about everything & search the Word for confirmation.
I'm a Pentecostal myself, but I use this method to be absolutely sure. I find many Pentecostal subjects to be wrong in these last days simply because the movement is going through the Falling Away, just like all the movements are.They are mixing their doctrines with the charismatics & believing their heretical teachings.
Sad, but true.
While I am immovable believing the Pentecostal Movement. I also will admit their failings as well.
EVERY denomination has them, & they are growing.
One major difference I've found is that most of the other denominations WON'T SAY A WORD about nor discuss THEIRS.
What they WILL do is mix the charismatics & Pentecostals together like MacArthur & Peterson do, which is absolute evidence that they have made themselves the Pentecostals enemies.

 

[Genez]

As some defend it... Matthew 7:21-23 is going on right now before our very eyes.

​

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, ​

but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will ​

say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in ​

your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ ​

​

Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’​

Those who know and can understand which temporary gifts actually ended will avoid that kind.
They will sense the evil about it.

Who will say God is unfair?
When He has made it so plain to see?

No excuses...


.............

 

[Wansvic]

you know you make some good points, I am not ok with all this confusion on what the word of God is and says at least not in my own heart I cannot speak for others, if a verse doesn't make sense to me then I cannot make any assumption or interpretation unless God himself shows me because it is to easy to spin our own beliefs into the word and make it say something it isn't. there is one truth not many one doctrine not many one word of God one body one spirit of truth a lot of ones

You are so right. There is one truth and that truth is found in the teachings of the apostles not denominational teachings. I read just yesterday there are currently over 45,000 denominations worldwide and an expected 64,000 by 2050 if the Lord Jesus tarries.

We live in a world that expects instant gradification. And sadly the same can be said of those who want to be granted entry into the kingdom of God. The bible does not say, "Come on in, since you say you believe in Jesus. What it does say, as I know you know,
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Also, the word DOES NOT SAY be ye doers of your denominations beliefs. It says, receive with meekness the engrafted word that is able to save your soul; be doers of the Word not hearers only deceiving yourselves. (James 1:21-22)

We all need to get back to what the bible actually teaches if we want to enter into the promised land of Heaven.

A side note: Something that popped into my mind years ago about the word denominations could very well be true. If the letters are twisted around something interesting is revealed. Denominations becomes Demon i nations. And what better description for institutions that pick and choose aspects of the word of God that are appealing to me, myself and I, rather than accept the sum of God's word.

Jesus said it best when the enemy challenged Him with downright deception, It is Written!

Keep in mind that Jesus said, MY sheep HEAR my VOICE... His voice is heard in the word. Those who are reborn know when the enemy is trying to deceive them. Why? Because they know what the word actually says; they've heard it straight from Jesus.

Lastly, eventhough I had received the Holy Spirit it wasn't until being rebaptized in water in the name of Jesus in accordance with the word that better comprehension stated happening. And it makes sense since Jesus said unless a person is born again they cannot SEE (comprehend) the kingdom. (John 3:3)

 

[Wansvic]

That was not the problem they were having....

The real problem was that there was a supernatural invisible power at work.
One that was not of God.
But, the person showcasing this effect?
Was using Jesus name for things Satan was have happen.

With, false doctrines to follow.

.......

Arguing against the word is not using wisdom. Jesus addressed the issue in the selfsame account:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes." Matthew 7:21-29