Scripture in itself

[wattie]

It's really common for believers to read a passage of scripture and go immediately to 'this is what it means for me'

Going to personal application before looking at the context of the passage itself.

An example of this, is when I was at a university christian club..and we would be worshipping in song, and someone would say 'where two or three are gathered, there I am with them!'.

We were supposed to applaud this..get excited etc..

But they were thinking their situation is the application for that verse, when actually, the passage itself is about local church discipline.

God blessing the process of dealing with a sinning brother in the local church. Jesus being in that process in a special way.

You could call it 'post-modern Christianity '...where a believer will interpret something from the Bible for personal application..and even though it doesn't fit their situation.. and it's still meant to be 'the Spirit speaking to them '

Thoughts?

 

[Magenta]

When is Jesus, and/or the Holy Spirit of God, not with us?

 

[wattie]

When is Jesus, and/or the Holy Spirit of God, not with us?

So here is where you get the different works of the Holy Spirit.

He can be 'in the midst' of an entire group of believers..the local church..and that is the other application of Matthew 18, and He has the indwelling role, for the individual, through the presence of the Holy Spirit.

His presence in the local church can be taken away.

But not for the individual

 

[keepingthingsreal]

It's really common for believers to read a passage of scripture and go immediately to 'this is what it means for me'

Going to personal application before looking at the context of the passage itself.

Many professing Christians regularly pull verses out of their actual contexts. In fact, I have been in several churches where it was commonplace for the pastor, associate pastors, elders, Sunday school teachers, etc., etc. to all do the same. I still recall literally trembling the first time that I read the Bible from cover to cover for myself. Why was I trembling? Because I saw that just about every thing that I was being taught in church was a total misapplication of scripture. What I was reading and what I was being taught in church were so far apart that I initially thought that I might be insane. In other words, there simply was no reconciling the two because they were worlds apart. Seeing how I was but a babe in Christ, my initial thought was that I must be the problem. However, after prayerfully reading the Bible from cover to cover several times, I came to the conclusion that I was not insane, and I chose to follow the teachings of scripture over the teachings of any man or church. That was the best decision that I ever made because I believe that I saved my soul in doing so.

An example of this, is when I was at a university christian club..and we would be worshipping in song, and someone would say 'where two or three are gathered, there I am with them!'.

We were supposed to applaud this..get excited etc..

But they were thinking their situation is the application for that verse, when actually, the passage itself is about local church discipline.

God blessing the process of dealing with a sinning brother in the local church. Jesus being in that process in a special way.

Here is the verse in question.

Mat 18:18
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 18:19
Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

For me, the key word here is "for" in verse 20 which means "because. Seeing how Jesus is in the midst wherever two or three are gathered together in his name, Christians have the authority to bind or loose certain things here on earth. In other words, I do not personally believe that Jesus was teaching that he is only in the midst when two or three gather together in his name for a specific purpose. Instead, I believe that he was saying that he is always in the midst when two or three gather together in his name, and this was the reason for their authority here on earth. Having said that, we need to strongly consider what it truly means to be gathered together "in his name."

You could call it 'post-modern Christianity '...where a believer will interpret something from the Bible for personal application..and even though it doesn't fit their situation.. and it's still meant to be 'the Spirit speaking to them '

A major part of this problem, from what I have personally observed, is that a lot of professing Christians turn to the Bible for confirmation of something they have predetermined to do. Such go "quote mining" for any scripture that they can use, regardless of its actual context, to somehow justify their own predetermined beliefs or actions. This is a very dangerous thing to do, and, quite frankly, I see certain people on this forum who regularly "quote mine" to somehow substantiate their own beliefs. In other words, they want the Bible to say something, so they skim through its pages to "wrest" some scriptures from it to allegedly support their erroneous beliefs.

Thoughts?

I just gave some, but I will add this.

Any rational person, whether they profess to be a Christian or not, has to know that something is terribly wrong with "the church" because there are so many schisms in it. In other words, it is beyond obvious that everybody cannot be correct in their doctrine or beliefs because of the major contrasts which exist within professing Christendom. If everybody was truly humbling themselves before the Lord, with no agendas of their own, and if everybody was truly seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, then we would all be like-minded, and the mind that we would all share would be the mind of Christ. Sad to say, this is not even remotely a reality. The cure? Although we cannot cure others without their genuine cooperation, we can at least cure ourselves by humbly submitting ourselves to the word of God, and to the Spirit of God.

 

[homwardbound]

It's really common for believers to read a passage of scripture and go immediately to 'this is what it means for me'

Going to personal application before looking at the context of the passage itself.

An example of this, is when I was at a university christian club..and we would be worshipping in song, and someone would say 'where two or three are gathered, there I am with them!'.

We were supposed to applaud this..get excited etc..

But they were thinking their situation is the application for that verse, when actually, the passage itself is about local church discipline.

God blessing the process of dealing with a sinning brother in the local church. Jesus being in that process in a special way.

You could call it 'post-modern Christianity '...where a believer will interpret something from the Bible for personal application..and even though it doesn't fit their situation.. and it's still meant to be 'the Spirit speaking to them '

Thoughts?

Sure

Living Bible
Luke 21:14-15
Therefore, don’t be concerned about how to answer the charges against you, for I will give you the right words and such logic that none of your opponents will be able to reply!

How many ways can those two passages above be interpreted?
When one, anyone gets this in them GOD Leads not me, the same that was in Jesus all the way to a willing one time death for us the people to get born new from Father in his Son being risen for us to walk new in love to all, not under the Mosaic Law anymore

Living Bible

Hebrews 7:11-12

(e) If the Jewish priests and their laws had been able to save us, why then did God need to send Christ as a priest with the rank of Melchizedek, instead of sending someone with the rank of Aaron—the same rank all other priests had?
And when God sends a new kind of priest, his law must be changed to permit it. As we all know, Christ did not belong to the priest-tribe of Levi, but came from the tribe of Judah, which had not been chosen for priesthood; Moses had never given them that work.


Authorized (King James) Version

Hebrews 7:11-12

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

 

[Aaron56]

It's really common for believers to read a passage of scripture and go immediately to 'this is what it means for me'

Going to personal application before looking at the context of the passage itself.

An example of this, is when I was at a university christian club..and we would be worshipping in song, and someone would say 'where two or three are gathered, there I am with them!'.

We were supposed to applaud this..get excited etc..

But they were thinking their situation is the application for that verse, when actually, the passage itself is about local church discipline.

God blessing the process of dealing with a sinning brother in the local church. Jesus being in that process in a special way.

You could call it 'post-modern Christianity '...where a believer will interpret something from the Bible for personal application..and even though it doesn't fit their situation.. and it's still meant to be 'the Spirit speaking to them '

Thoughts?

Yeah. People have been using scripture as magical incantations maybe since the beginning. I see posts on social media, from my friends, like that all the time.

 

[Daisy2]

Wattie, context is important too but the Bible is written that even a child could understand it and if it wasn't relevant to every person the Bible wouldn't be the living Bible made our all knowing Father.

 

[wattie]

Wattie, context is important too but the Bible is written that even a child could understand it and if it wasn't relevant to every person the Bible wouldn't be the living Bible made our all knowing Father.

This is true, of course there is personal application for passages.

The question is whether what we think we are applying to ourselves is actually the situation scripture is in itself showing.

 

[studier]

It's really common for believers to read a passage of scripture and go immediately to 'this is what it means for me'

I don't know when this began, but it was normal procedure for many small groups 3-4 decades ago to teach that this was the way to learn Scripture. And it was common practice for churches to encourage the formation of study groups with a unlearned leader and a commentary as the guides for learning especially when the regular assemblies were becoming music festivals with little to no solid teaching from the pulpit.

All I can say is we used to look at these practices and say they are going to lead to problems - more problems - as generally speaking the church seemed substantially unlearned in the Scriptures already.

 

[homwardbound]

Yeah. People have been using scripture as magical incantations maybe since the beginning. I see posts on social media, from my friends, like that all the time.

And I see Father using it all, whether bad or good=, turning g it all into good for us all to stand in trust to Daddy, PaPa through risen Son for us, at least me
Giving away my age
Ever hear of Ny-quill, so you can rest medicine?
I now see God-Quill, I am resting and rested, even while in adversities here on earth presently
I see said that blind person to the other deaf person. how perplexing
we doing the work as get taught to from physical child birth. Then new birth in Daddy's Spirit and truth the Holy Spirit to lead, me learning to not lead and learning how tricks get the way of Daddy or me leading, continuously thanking Father, PaPa that I remain forgiven from him through Son's done work on that cross where all were reconciled
Thank you Father, PaPa

 

[GWH]

Many professing Christians regularly pull verses out of their actual contexts. In fact, I have been in several churches where it was commonplace for the pastor, associate pastors, elders, Sunday school teachers, etc., etc. to all do the same. I still recall literally trembling the first time that I read the Bible from cover to cover for myself. Why was I trembling? Because I saw that just about every thing that I was being taught in church was a total misapplication of scripture. What I was reading and what I was being taught in church were so far apart that I initially thought that I might be insane. In other words, there simply was no reconciling the two because they were worlds apart. Seeing how I was but a babe in Christ, my initial thought was that I must be the problem. However, after prayerfully reading the Bible from cover to cover several times, I came to the conclusion that I was not insane, and I chose to follow the teachings of scripture over the teachings of any man or church. That was the best decision that I ever made because I believe that I saved my soul in doing so.
Here is the verse in question.

Mat 18:18
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 18:19
Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

For me, the key word here is "for" in verse 20 which means "because. Seeing how Jesus is in the midst wherever two or three are gathered together in his name, Christians have the authority to bind or loose certain things here on earth. In other words, I do not personally believe that Jesus was teaching that he is only in the midst when two or three gather together in his name for a specific purpose. Instead, I believe that he was saying that he is always in the midst when two or three gather together in his name, and this was the reason for their authority here on earth. Having said that, we need to strongly consider what it truly means to be gathered together "in his name."
A major part of this problem, from what I have personally observed, is that a lot of professing Christians turn to the Bible for confirmation of something they have predetermined to do. Such go "quote mining" for any scripture that they can use, regardless of its actual context, to somehow justify their own predetermined beliefs or actions. This is a very dangerous thing to do, and, quite frankly, I see certain people on this forum who regularly "quote mine" to somehow substantiate their own beliefs. In other words, they want the Bible to say something, so they skim through its pages to "wrest" some scriptures from it to allegedly support their erroneous beliefs.
I just gave some, but I will add this.

Any rational person, whether they profess to be a Christian or not, has to know that something is terribly wrong with "the church" because there are so many schisms in it. In other words, it is beyond obvious that everybody cannot be correct in their doctrine or beliefs because of the major contrasts which exist within professing Christendom. If everybody was truly humbling themselves before the Lord, with no agendas of their own, and if everybody was truly seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, then we would all be like-minded, and the mind that we would all share would be the mind of Christ. Sad to say, this is not even remotely a reality. The cure? Although we cannot cure others without their genuine cooperation, we can at least cure ourselves by humbly submitting ourselves to the word of God, and to the Spirit of God.

You got that right!

TOP #255: By learning Scripture Christians may be wise regarding correct doctrine, rebuking and righteousness, becoming equipped for doing good works. [2TM 3:14-17&4:5] This a significant nuance or elaboration of TOP #157 & 202. Paul applies it by charging Timothy with preaching God’s Word, correcting false doctrine, rebuking sin and encouraging persevering faith.

TOP #202: Repentance or conversion should be followed by learning more of God’s Word (LGW) in order to avoid being deceived by atheist philosophy. [COL 2:7-8, cf. TOP #255]. This truth, called discipleship or sanctification, is akin to TOP #155&157. The part of GW that is necessary to believe for salvation is the Gospel (which may be called the kerygma or preaching), and the additional learning that needs to occur for spiritual maturation is the “all truth” in JN 16:13 and the “all things/everything” in MT 28:20 (which may be called the didache or teaching).

TOP #157: Christ gave various gifts regarding teaching God’s Word so that God’s people would grow spiritually and become mature. [EPH 4:7-15, cf. TOP #202 &255] Although salvation is by faith, becoming spiritually mature is by good works or continuing to cooperate with the loving Spirit of God (cf. 2:10).

TOJ #3: Learn God’s Word (LGW). [MT 4:4//LK 4:4] This is the first of three truths Jesus tried to teach the devil during a period of testing in the desert (MK 1:12-13). Satan first tempted Jesus to perform a miracle; just like he tempts us to want to walk by proof rather than by Faith (MT 24:24). However, Jesus indicated that God’s Word is the fuel, food {JN 6:26-27} and medicine for souls, so if we do not LGW, then we will run out of gas, fail to grow and be spiritually sick. Or, in terms of another passage, our house (life) will be destroyed. {MT 7:24-27//LK 6:47-49}

This TOJ prompts the question: what is God’s Word? The NT affirms most of the books in the OT, and most Christians affirm the books in the NT. The next TOJ indicates that “truth” is God’s Word. Some people identify every word in the Bible with truth, but this view ignores the need for an infallible interpretation in order to establish an inerrant canon and to explain discrepancies, such as one instruction to pray for God’s will to be done (TOJ #34) and another to ask for anything (TOJ #51). A perfect revelation might also be expected to have included teachings to head off future controversies (such as “Thou shalt not murder babies in the womb”) or to answer crucial issues like “God does not prove His will to humanity because doing so would abrogate volition.” (Cf. the next TOJ.)

TOJ #4: Harmonize all truth. [MT 4:7a] Jesus implied this important logical principle to apply when seeking the correct understanding of GW by saying, “It is also written”. If the Spirit of God inspired the biblical writers (2PT 1:20-21) and created the world (GN 1:1-3), then the best interpretation of a TOJ should harmonize the totality of revealed and scientific knowledge. In his second temptation the devil quoted Scripture (PS 91:11-12) as though he were heeding the TOJ about LGW, but he attempted to deceive Jesus with a false interpretation so He would perform a miracle. Although Jesus did perform miracles, it was only as necessary in order to establish His church so that Christians could preach salvation via saving Faith in the Gospel/kerygma. (See TOJ #77 & #78.)

 

[Blain]

It's really common for believers to read a passage of scripture and go immediately to 'this is what it means for me'

Going to personal application before looking at the context of the passage itself.

An example of this, is when I was at a university christian club..and we would be worshipping in song, and someone would say 'where two or three are gathered, there I am with them!'.

We were supposed to applaud this..get excited etc..

But they were thinking their situation is the application for that verse, when actually, the passage itself is about local church discipline.

God blessing the process of dealing with a sinning brother in the local church. Jesus being in that process in a special way.

You could call it 'post-modern Christianity '...where a believer will interpret something from the Bible for personal application..and even though it doesn't fit their situation.. and it's still meant to be 'the Spirit speaking to them '

Thoughts?

I was just speaking on this on another thread context is vital not the situation or what we believe it to say. even if we think it by the spirit we cannot just use it to fit our situation or position
. I am on a personal journey for the truth the real truth not what I think truth is not what others say truth is only the truth no interpretation no preset concept in mind just a blank slate for the truth to fill that is it.
But I admit it is not that easy the mind still tries to apply itself into the word we still have a inner mindset or beliefs we need to let go before we can accept what the word of God is actually saying it requires much discipline and patience waiting on the Lord to reveal it to us.

 

[homwardbound]

I was just speaking on this on another thread context is vital not the situation or what we believe it to say. even if we think it by the spirit we cannot just use it to fit our situation or position
. I am on a personal journey for the truth the real truth not what I think truth is not what others say truth is only the truth no interpretation no preset concept in mind just a blank slate for the truth to fill that is it.
But I admit it is not that easy the mind still tries to apply itself into the word we still have a inner mindset or beliefs we need to let go before we can accept what the word of God is actually saying it requires much discipline and patience waiting on the Lord to reveal it to us.

Amen!

Authorized (King James) Version

2 cor 10:5-6

casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; and having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
I have that, in a readiness, yet my obedience is not perfect as Son's is, woe!
1 see Son in John 8, who, let that woman go, after those there were accusing her, righteous they were in catching her, yet Jesus said it clearly, to me anyways
Okay, lets stone here as your law says to. Then he gave this, anyone of you that has no sin in them, cast the first stone. They all left, as Jesus drew in the sand, They leave each one not being perfect, leave. Then, Jesus asks the woman, where are your accusers? I bet she was perplexed, I would be. Then he states to her, Neither do I accuse you. Go and sin no more. The only one perfect. let her go! Jesus is not a religionist.
Wow, woe is me, you think? Wow, thank you Savior, are we seeing now, only if Father leads and then one, anyone will see and believe God or not consciously aware (Rom 8:15-16), thus miraculously, we the willing ones, do the done work of Son in love to all as is done on that cross for us all, as reconciled We do not have to, we choose to, thank you
thanks as we each learn daily in this amazing love from God Father given us through Son's done work once for us all to believe and stand in as now risen where the new life for me began
in love and mercy to all over the few that I did from religion in past now
thank you Father and Son as Won (One)

 

[Daisy2]

Wattie, Sometimes I find that one can interpret a Bible verse two or three different ways but none of them contradict themselves. Don't you think an all knowing God did this on purpose? I know humans like to put everything in boxes ( What is the context can this be applied to only this situation or multiple situations) and others find it offensive quoting Bible verses regularly.

But I can understand your point if someone is trying to argue their point of view and it doesn't align with God's and then they apply Bible verses to justify it this would be awful.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So here is where you get the different works of the Holy Spirit.

He can be 'in the midst' of an entire group of believers..the local church..and that is the other application of Matthew 18, and He has the indwelling role, for the individual, through the presence of the Holy Spirit.

His presence in the local church can be taken away.

But not for the individual

I think she’s saying if you have two or three people who have the holt ghost in them together , God is there also and not only when it involves church discipline

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If one person has received the Holy Ghost then anyone they gather with , God is with the group. god was with Jesus and then he’s with anyone who accepts Jesus and the gospel as he presented it

His spirit is with the person or people.

But I do agree with your post it happens a lot.

But If two or three gether together who have received the spirit of God , he’s definately there with them coming together in his name. The Holy Ghost is his presence with the believer as well as when they are gathered together. Always from the time we believe he’s with us .

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So here is where you get the different works of the Holy Spirit.

He can be 'in the midst' of an entire group of believers..the local church..and that is the other application of Matthew 18, and He has the indwelling role, for the individual, through the presence of the Holy Spirit.

His presence in the local church can be taken away.

But not for the individual

Church is just a group of individual believers gathering together

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yeah. People have been using scripture as magical incantations maybe since the beginning. I see posts on social media, from my friends, like that all the time.

It’s hard to misinterpret what you read or hear like this because you get to begin hearing what Paul is actually communicating the message rather than the individual sentance without context

“So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, and they are full of greed.

That, however, is not the way of life you learned when you heard about Christ and were taught by him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus.

You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;

and to be made new in the attitude of your minds;

and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body.

“In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold. Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.

Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others faith according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed to the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:17-32‬ ‭NIV‬‬

if you hear the doctrine like that short example then when you see a sentance removed from it like This

“And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed to the day of redemption.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:30‬ ‭

and then the person starts explaining that this is proof of what they are saying how your already saved and can’t “ lose salvation “ because your “sealed “ but it all relies on tbier own determinations of what “ sealed “ really means . And the Bible never says all the other parts of what they are saying . So you end up with three misapplied verses and a speech by someone that explains thier own ideas of what these integral terms mean like “ sealed “ and the interpretation relies on how they interpret these seemingly mysterious single verses. But it’s only because the context has been ignored and removed that it seems mysterious lol

instead of taking a page of an epistle from Paul or a sermon from Jesus and teaching that stuff to the church , the same ideas and things they taught . we snag a verse that fits our own interpretation and pre conceived idea and then use those verses to support those things even if they are unrelated to and even contradict what’s being said in the context it’s taken from , that explains the single verse .

We need to hear and believe what those people early in heard and believed but
in the past fifty years or so it’s dwindled down to hearing various and divergent ideas and a few misapplied and cobbled together scriptures to support the idea . Then selecting a denomination and practicing whatever things they believe.

one page at a time rather than one verse at a time makes all the difference because you have much context for each verse that way . not all of course because it goes on and comes from something else , but it’s much harder to misapply it if we take sections of scripture in rather than just verses and then an unrelated sermon , that’s all about a verse that’s already been removed from its own context. Now it’s being used to prop up an idea that’s contrary from the section of scriptire it’s plucked from …

about 50 ish ad

“Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:2-4‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[posthuman]

But they were thinking their situation is the application for that verse, when actually, the passage itself is about local church discipline.

is it?

isn't He answering, who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

if we look at the whole chapter, it begins with a question, which it seems to me He answers until in verse 21, Peter has another question.
also, the immediate context of verse 20 is verse 19, which is a much broader context than someone who has sinned against you - it's not specifically about 'church discipline' but about agreement 'concerning anything' and that is still couched in the context of being converted and like a little child, that such humility is the greatest in the kingdom.

 

[posthuman]

Wattie, context is important too but the Bible is written that even a child could understand it and if it wasn't relevant to every person the Bible wouldn't be the living Bible made our all knowing Father.

it's also written so that a person can spend their entire life trying to understand the depth of meaning in even a single verse, and only scratch the surface...

 

[GWH]

It's really common for believers to read a passage of scripture and go immediately to 'this is what it means for me'

Going to personal application before looking at the context of the passage itself.

An example of this, is when I was at a university christian club..and we would be worshipping in song, and someone would say 'where two or three are gathered, there I am with them!'.

We were supposed to applaud this..get excited etc..

But they were thinking their situation is the application for that verse, when actually, the passage itself is about local church discipline.

God blessing the process of dealing with a sinning brother in the local church. Jesus being in that process in a special way.

You could call it 'post-modern Christianity '...where a believer will interpret something from the Bible for personal application..and even though it doesn't fit their situation.. and it's still meant to be 'the Spirit speaking to them '

Thoughts?

Yes, your understanding is consistent with these teachings of Paul and Jesus:

TOP #243: Accusations against church leaders must be supported by at least two witnesses. [1TM 5:19]

This teaching is included in TOJ #100, both of which are based on DT 19:15.