Slain in the spirit?
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I have not taken any scripture out of context I use scripture to encourage and build others up not to win arguments or at the very least I don't just pull a verse out to use it as a weapon. your usage of the scripture here for instance....who are you to say he doesn't know me or anyone else in this thread?
you have yet to prove yourself right in the temeporary gifts because you keep taking scripture out of context that do not stand on their own you cannot just use it to say want you want if you have respect for it then use it correctly
the gifts will indeed cease but the scriptures say when perfect ios complete it nowhere says that to mean his word being what he meant in fact nowhere in scripture does it say that. you keep trying to make it say that but it doesn't
our ability to prophecy is not perfect our knowledge is not perfect and tongues is not perfect this is why they will end but it doesn't state that it is because the written word is finnished and to try to make it say that proves my point.
however I am not going to try to reason with you because you refuse the wisdom of others you use scripture to your own desire and apparently you think yourself in a position you are not that you would say we need a good teacher that he doesn't know us so with that I am done here
you have yet to prove yourself right in the temeporary gifts because you keep taking scripture out of context that do not stand on their own you cannot just use it to say want you want if you have respect for it then use it correctly
the gifts will indeed cease but the scriptures say when perfect ios complete it nowhere says that to mean his word being what he meant in fact nowhere in scripture does it say that. you keep trying to make it say that but it doesn't
our ability to prophecy is not perfect our knowledge is not perfect and tongues is not perfect this is why they will end but it doesn't state that it is because the written word is finnished and to try to make it say that proves my point.
however I am not going to try to reason with you because you refuse the wisdom of others you use scripture to your own desire and apparently you think yourself in a position you are not that you would say we need a good teacher that he doesn't know us so with that I am done here
Speaking in tongues is the initial evidence a person has been indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
Afterward, due to the presence of the Holy Spirit, many uncharacterist traits begin to manifest. Things such as genuine love, willingness to serve, compassion for the lost, patience, meekness and at the same time boldness in sharing the truth, faith over fear, spiritually acquired knowledge and wisdom. The list goes on and on since the Holy Spirit takes us on a journey to become Christlike.
Afterward, due to the presence of the Holy Spirit, many uncharacterist traits begin to manifest. Things such as genuine love, willingness to serve, compassion for the lost, patience, meekness and at the same time boldness in sharing the truth, faith over fear, spiritually acquired knowledge and wisdom. The list goes on and on since the Holy Spirit takes us on a journey to become Christlike.
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I do think tongues can be a sign but I also don't think it is the initial sign of being baptized by the spirit not everyone speaks in tongues. but you are absoultely correct on pretty much everything here the only thing I might disagree on is tongues I have heard people say that if you have not spoken in tongues you have not recieved the holy spirit is that actually what some people believe?
like what if you have been blessed greatly with the spirit able to pray without ceasing in the spirit for instance able to see healing done by the name of Jesus but not speak in tongues?
like what if you have been blessed greatly with the spirit able to pray without ceasing in the spirit for instance able to see healing done by the name of Jesus but not speak in tongues?
So, no?
I find that tongues often accompany the salvation experience throughout the book of Acts, but can't find where it is said to be necessary to salvation. But if you have scripture where it does say such, please share it. If not, saying that tongues is necessary to salvation goes beyond what scripture teaches.
I find that tongues often accompany the salvation experience throughout the book of Acts, but can't find where it is said to be necessary to salvation. But if you have scripture where it does say such, please share it. If not, saying that tongues is necessary to salvation goes beyond what scripture teaches.
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I am not aware of a stand alone verse that says people are required to speak in tongues. However, scripture not only reveals people speak in tongues when they receive the Holy Spirit, but confirms it over and over. And, it is the sum of God's word that reveals truth. (Psalm 119:160) According to Jesus it is those who hunger and thirst after righteousness that will be filled. (Matt. 5:6)
Jesus told His apostles to wait to be endued with power. And this empowerment was the result of the Holy Spirit coming to dwell in people at Pentecost. Speaking in tongues was the evidence that indicated the experience had taken place. (Acts 2:4) Peter stated that what occurred was prophesied by Joel. "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh. (Acts 2:16-17) Peter explained that what was seen and heard was the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:33)
Afterward, Peter told those who already believed in Jesus how they too could receive the Holy Spirit. He also revealed that the instructions pertained to others as well. (Acts 2:38-39)
And as I am sure you are aware, every detailed account reveals 100% of those who received the Holy Spirit spoke in tongues. (Acts 2, 10, 19)
Lastly, Paul said those who do not have the Spirit dwelling inside are not children of God. (Rom. 8:9)
Scripture references:
Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:16-17
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:
Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he (Jesus) hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Acts 2:38-39
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Rom 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Jesus told His apostles to wait to be endued with power. And this empowerment was the result of the Holy Spirit coming to dwell in people at Pentecost. Speaking in tongues was the evidence that indicated the experience had taken place. (Acts 2:4) Peter stated that what occurred was prophesied by Joel. "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh. (Acts 2:16-17) Peter explained that what was seen and heard was the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:33)
Afterward, Peter told those who already believed in Jesus how they too could receive the Holy Spirit. He also revealed that the instructions pertained to others as well. (Acts 2:38-39)
And as I am sure you are aware, every detailed account reveals 100% of those who received the Holy Spirit spoke in tongues. (Acts 2, 10, 19)
Lastly, Paul said those who do not have the Spirit dwelling inside are not children of God. (Rom. 8:9)
Scripture references:
Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:16-17
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:
Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he (Jesus) hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Acts 2:38-39
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Rom 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
The gospels provided teachings that pertained to things that would occur after Jesus was glorified. One such teaching pertained to the NT rebirth. Jesus indicated that unless a man was born of water and Spirit he could not see or enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5) What Jesus was referring to, and actually prophesied about, began in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost. (Luke 24:47, Acts 2) The message presented involved both water and Spirit. The same message was presented to others, and continues even unto day.
Those who believe in Jesus, repent, submit to water baptism in His name and receive the Holy Spirit experience the NT rebirth.
Those who believe in Jesus, repent, submit to water baptism in His name and receive the Holy Spirit experience the NT rebirth.
The reason I asked is because I can show verses that show that salvation is of grace and not of works.
It's not that I don't believe salvation to be attended by supernatural and natural works. I definitely do. Salvation itself is supernatural. But I for one have never spoken in anything other than learned human language. I have been baptized by the Spirit into Christ and baptized by Christ with the Spirit...which, incidentally, are separate spiritual experiences. One is performed by Christ and the other by the Spirit.
Fruit is how one measures the reality of a changed heart.
It's not that I don't believe salvation to be attended by supernatural and natural works. I definitely do. Salvation itself is supernatural. But I for one have never spoken in anything other than learned human language. I have been baptized by the Spirit into Christ and baptized by Christ with the Spirit...which, incidentally, are separate spiritual experiences. One is performed by Christ and the other by the Spirit.
Fruit is how one measures the reality of a changed heart.
I understand all that.
Trouble is, you seem to think that by getting saved it puts a person on automatic pilot to finding sound doctrine and achieving maturity in Christ. But, Scripture also teaches that not every saved person does spiritually mature in Christ. Though, over time
they will become more sophisticated in presenting their preferred false doctrines. Leading them to thinking they are mature.
As far as I am concerned.
Simply put...
You are of a different spirit.
And, I, of you.
You can not receive from me.
And, likewise in reverse.
So, why don't you just rest it?
The Lord will sort it out when the chosen time comes.
In the mean while, from what we now know about each other?
You and I will only waste time.
Time which the Lord wants to be redeemed.
So? Why not, you go with what the spirit of your choice?
The one that holds a personal appeal for you.
As for myself?
I will continue to where I believe He is sending me.
Wishing for you a blessed Evaluation when you appear before the Lord.
grace and peace.... GeneZ
Trouble is, you seem to think that by getting saved it puts a person on automatic pilot to finding sound doctrine and achieving maturity in Christ. But, Scripture also teaches that not every saved person does spiritually mature in Christ. Though, over time
they will become more sophisticated in presenting their preferred false doctrines. Leading them to thinking they are mature.
As far as I am concerned.
Simply put...
You are of a different spirit.
And, I, of you.
You can not receive from me.
And, likewise in reverse.
So, why don't you just rest it?
The Lord will sort it out when the chosen time comes.
In the mean while, from what we now know about each other?
You and I will only waste time.
Time which the Lord wants to be redeemed.
So? Why not, you go with what the spirit of your choice?
The one that holds a personal appeal for you.
As for myself?
I will continue to where I believe He is sending me.
Wishing for you a blessed Evaluation when you appear before the Lord.
grace and peace.... GeneZ
I know many profess to have the Holy Spirit, but the detailed accounts in the bible indicate 100% of the individuals who received the Holy Spirit spoke in tongues. Food for thought: the truth concerning God's principles is always established by 2-3 scriptures. Since this is the case, one would expect the detailed accounts to indicate only a portion of those who received the Holy Spirit spoke in tongues.
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Blain.... You need to find a competent pastor teacher. They exist if you seek with all your heart.
You are following a formula which in concept is sound.
In many cases, unless the Greek tenses and moods are understood?
What you are reading in English might open one up to subjective reasoning.
Now if you ever experienced anointed exegetical teaching?
Myself was shocked to learn what I was not being shown.
I believe you would find likewise.
It's something not everyone finds.
Too many end up following what Paul warned Timothy about, in 2 Timothy 4:3.... and just the same?
They think/assume they got it! But, very wrong.
For the time will come when people will not put up with/tolerate sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of
teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Join the crowd if you wish.
If something deep inside you feels that something is missing, even though,
some teaching promotes what some would have you to believe?
You may find a good pastor teacher, if you are will to be corrected, and are teachable. (humble)
Grace and peace .........
You are following a formula which in concept is sound.
In many cases, unless the Greek tenses and moods are understood?
What you are reading in English might open one up to subjective reasoning.
Now if you ever experienced anointed exegetical teaching?
Myself was shocked to learn what I was not being shown.
I believe you would find likewise.
It's something not everyone finds.
Too many end up following what Paul warned Timothy about, in 2 Timothy 4:3.... and just the same?
They think/assume they got it! But, very wrong.
For the time will come when people will not put up with/tolerate sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of
teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Join the crowd if you wish.
If something deep inside you feels that something is missing, even though,
some teaching promotes what some would have you to believe?
You may find a good pastor teacher, if you are will to be corrected, and are teachable. (humble)
Grace and peace .........
Yes, but taking the verses out of the context of the purpose, can lead you in an wrong direction. There are no 3 references who show you that speaking in tongues was a sign for baptised with the Holy Spirit.
If you use Acts 2 f.e. then you miss
✝ Acts 2:3
"And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them."
Where this is reportet again?
Must you not expect that this will be the same for every believer?
If you read all this passages, Acts 8, 10, 19 without having a doctrine behind in mind, you can understand that this was a sign for the Jews that the Samaritans and the Gentiles are also acceptet as they are. And for the disciples of John the Baptist it was a proof that the gospel which Peter teaches about Jesus Christ is right.
But folks creating from this an doctrine, which splittes the follower of Christ. Because they teach you cant have the baptising with the Holy Spirit if you cant speaking in tomgues.
In 1. Cor. 12, 30 Paul said clear that the gift of speaking in tongues is not all believers given.
✝ 1 Corinthians 12:30
"Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"
But the pentecostals and also the charismatics ignore this vers ore discuss it a away.
Because it shows that their teaching is wrong.
If you use Acts 2 f.e. then you miss
✝ Acts 2:3
"And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them."
Where this is reportet again?
Must you not expect that this will be the same for every believer?
If you read all this passages, Acts 8, 10, 19 without having a doctrine behind in mind, you can understand that this was a sign for the Jews that the Samaritans and the Gentiles are also acceptet as they are. And for the disciples of John the Baptist it was a proof that the gospel which Peter teaches about Jesus Christ is right.
But folks creating from this an doctrine, which splittes the follower of Christ. Because they teach you cant have the baptising with the Holy Spirit if you cant speaking in tomgues.
In 1. Cor. 12, 30 Paul said clear that the gift of speaking in tongues is not all believers given.
✝ 1 Corinthians 12:30
"Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"
But the pentecostals and also the charismatics ignore this vers ore discuss it a away.
Because it shows that their teaching is wrong.
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No.
Just because Jesus spoke directly to Saul to convert him, does that mean He must speak to everyone?
Imagine if you would the disciples going to the upper room to receive power from on high. How would these new believers know when they got it? The tongues of fire on these new believers would settle any dispute why they would be speaking these new languages. Also, they would go out afterward, telling the exact same story to everyone, so if some got saved & baptized in the Holy Spirit, those empowered would believe it to be so. Only those who were there could testify that the others after that got the same thing.
To me the fire was a great confirmation of what happened. Does this make sense to you?
Just because Jesus spoke directly to Saul to convert him, does that mean He must speak to everyone?
Imagine if you would the disciples going to the upper room to receive power from on high. How would these new believers know when they got it? The tongues of fire on these new believers would settle any dispute why they would be speaking these new languages. Also, they would go out afterward, telling the exact same story to everyone, so if some got saved & baptized in the Holy Spirit, those empowered would believe it to be so. Only those who were there could testify that the others after that got the same thing.
To me the fire was a great confirmation of what happened. Does this make sense to you?
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Tongues are not for today....
They were to be a warning sign to the Jews who were rejecting Jesus Christ, and who would continue in their rejection.
It was like signs that were given to Pharaoh. Pharaoh rejected and did not repent.
Note..., t says, the sign was given to a specific people ("this people").
To whom?
To unbelieving Jews.
Paul, in essence, was saying that unbelieving Jews who were rejecting Jesus Christ in the face of tongues were just as bad as Pharaoh had been when presented the signs from God!
Not everyone can be caught up in the invisible power that grabs people into what were temporary gifts.
For not everybody can be hypnotized.
Hypnotists know this.
They were to be a warning sign to the Jews who were rejecting Jesus Christ, and who would continue in their rejection.
It was like signs that were given to Pharaoh. Pharaoh rejected and did not repent.
Note..., t says, the sign was given to a specific people ("this people").
To whom?
To unbelieving Jews.
Brethren, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants,
but in your thinking be adults.
In the Law it is written:
“With other tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people, (Israel)
but even then they will not listen to me,
says the Lord.”
Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers.
Paul, in essence, was saying that unbelieving Jews who were rejecting Jesus Christ in the face of tongues were just as bad as Pharaoh had been when presented the signs from God!
Not everyone can be caught up in the invisible power that grabs people into what were temporary gifts.
For not everybody can be hypnotized.
Hypnotists know this.
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