Slain in the spirit?
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Scripture confirms over and over that the water spoken of relates to water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin.
The faith that arises from hearing the word of God is that Jesus is the risen Son of God whose sacrifice paid the penalty for all mankind. And faith that what God says is true regarding repentance, water baptism, and His promise to dwell in those who obey Him results in the NT rebirth. Afterward, those who experience the NT rebirth are led by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit on a journey that requires continual steps of faith in pursuit of becoming Christ-like. Those who endure to the end of their life or until Jesus returns will be saved.
The faith that arises from hearing the word of God is that Jesus is the risen Son of God whose sacrifice paid the penalty for all mankind. And faith that what God says is true regarding repentance, water baptism, and His promise to dwell in those who obey Him results in the NT rebirth. Afterward, those who experience the NT rebirth are led by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit on a journey that requires continual steps of faith in pursuit of becoming Christ-like. Those who endure to the end of their life or until Jesus returns will be saved.
We are all on a journey of learning. I certainly don't claim to know it all, nor will I ever, in this life or the next. I do, however, continue to search the scriptures when confronted with the viewpoints of others. It would be foolish to neglect to do so. But, nothing I've been presented with changes what the bible reveals, and I have personally experienced concerning the NT rebirth.
Thanks for the discussion.
Thanks for the discussion.
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We disagree on what leads to salvation and what accompanies salvation. If, in fact, salvation is of grace and not of works, any works should be viewed as the result of salvation and not its cause. Thus, the performance of works should be expected in proximity to the occurrence of salvation and be attributed to it, rather than as a contributing factor to salvation.
You seem to believe otherwise. I think the reason for this is because you make no distinction between the indwelling of the Spirit which places one into Christ, and the baptism of the Spirit which authenticates the reality of the indwelling Spirit.
You seem to believe otherwise. I think the reason for this is because you make no distinction between the indwelling of the Spirit which places one into Christ, and the baptism of the Spirit which authenticates the reality of the indwelling Spirit.
Not every scripture will include all the specific details related to an experience. It is not necessary to give specific details over and over once they have been established/revealed by 2-3 scriptures. (Deut. 19:15, 2 Cor. 13:1, Matt. 18:16)
The specific details related to the NT rebirth are found in Acts 2:4, 38-42, 10:43-48, 19:1-7. They include belief in Jesus as the risen Son of God, repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin, and receiving the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. The accounts referenced establish that those who were indwelt by the Holy Spirit all spoke in tongues. And, Acts 8:12-16 alludes to the same. As such, it is not necessary that all the details be recorded in every scripture.
Since it is proven in God's word that when people receive the Holy Spirit they speak in tongues we can be confident that the same applied to Timothy.
"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:1-4)
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
The specific details related to the NT rebirth are found in Acts 2:4, 38-42, 10:43-48, 19:1-7. They include belief in Jesus as the risen Son of God, repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin, and receiving the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. The accounts referenced establish that those who were indwelt by the Holy Spirit all spoke in tongues. And, Acts 8:12-16 alludes to the same. As such, it is not necessary that all the details be recorded in every scripture.
Since it is proven in God's word that when people receive the Holy Spirit they speak in tongues we can be confident that the same applied to Timothy.
"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:1-4)
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." John 17:15-21
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." John 17:15-21
I see? You say one is not a gift. The other way is?
You make stuff up to fit your experience...
1 Corinthians 14:27-28 says that if there is no interpreter, you should speak to yourself and to God.
Meaning?
When you speak allegedly in tongues, when alone?
The only difference? (with the same gift)
Would be ,you do not need an interpreter when alone.
Now go make up some more new rules to get your people excited to hear about them....
Excited,... Because, it works for them.
this is silly....
You make stuff up to fit your experience...
1 Corinthians 14:27-28 says that if there is no interpreter, you should speak to yourself and to God.
Meaning?
When you speak allegedly in tongues, when alone?
The only difference? (with the same gift)
Would be ,you do not need an interpreter when alone.
Now go make up some more new rules to get your people excited to hear about them....
Excited,... Because, it works for them.
this is silly....
I see only one experience related to the Holy Spirit as recorded on the day the NT church was birthed. And thereafter in relation to Gentiles, and 12 individuals in Ephesus. The same was alluded to concerning the Samaritans. (Acts 8:12-16) The experience was internal; people spoke in tongues as a result of the Holy Spirit entering their body.