Gospel Confusion...

keepingthingsreal · Feb 4, 2025

This is another oft-repeated lie. Apparently, you, as well as many others before you, have been hoodwinked into believing that Matthew's gospel was written only to the Jews. You know, the oft-repeated lie that Matthew spoke of the kingdom of heaven whereas the other gospel writers spoke of the kingdom of God, and how they allegedly are two different kingdoms. Here's an idea. Try reading the Bible for yourself, and stop listening to charlatans.

Here, read what Matthew wrote.

Mat 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Mat 12:28
But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Mat 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Mat 21:31
Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Mat 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Elsewhere in his gospel, Matthew spoke of the kingdom of heaven, and they are one and the same thing. Stop believing the lies of charlatans, and start embracing what the Bible actually teaches on this matter. I know what you people are going to say before you even say it.

John146 · Feb 4, 2025

keepingthingsreal said:

This is another oft-repeated lie. Apparently, you, as well as many others before you, have been hoodwinked into believing that Matthew's gospel was written only to the Jews. You know, the oft-repeated lie that Matthew spoke of the kingdom of heaven whereas the other gospel writers spoke of the kingdom of God, and how they allegedly are two different kingdoms. Here's an idea. Try reading the Bible for yourself, and stop listening to charlatans.

Here, read what Matthew wrote.

Mat 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Mat 12:28
But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Mat 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Mat 21:31
Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Mat 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Elsewhere in his gospel, Matthew spoke of the kingdom of heaven, and they are one and the same thing. Stop believing the lies of charlatans, and start embracing what the Bible actually teaches on this matter. I know what you people are going to say before you even say it.

Both kingdoms were at hand at the time of Christ's first coming. They will both be realized at the second coming.

Kingdom of God = spiritual kingdom of righteousness
Kingdom of Heaven = literal, physical kingdom on earth where Jesus will rule as king in Jerusalem on David's throne

keepingthingsreal · Feb 4, 2025

Pilgrimshope said:

Then how did the thief on the cross understand it beforehand?

Luk 23:42
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

This thief obviously believed that Christ, who was being crucified right next to him, was going to be resurrected from the dead in order to later come into his kingdom. Where/how did he obtain such an understanding?

keepingthingsreal · Feb 4, 2025

John146 said:

Keep telling yourself that lie. A simple comparison between the gospel accounts will easily show that the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are one and the same thing. Plus, I already showed you how Matthew used the terms interchangeably. Closing your eyes to this truth will not benefit you, so I would strongly advise you to change your doctrine according to what the scriptures actually teach on this matter.

Pilgrimshope · Feb 4, 2025

keepingthingsreal said:

well my guess is that he probably heard Jesus preaching the kingdom of God and believed him. It doesn’t mean he understood everything yet he believed Jesus preaching remember

My guess because nonone really knows is he had been one of the crowds who hears Jesus preaching of his kingdom

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭

“And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I was sort of agreeing with what you said they didn’t have to understand everything they just had to hear and believe Jesus word of his kingdom . What I was saying is the apostles hadn’t received the spirit until pentocost notice what happens immediately regarding peters preaching

They begin to preach the gospel by th e spirit just like Jesus did

“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:9-11, 14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All I was meaning is even Jesus had an appointed time when he would begin preaching doctrine by the spirit

“And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭4:17-19, 21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The apostles weren’t annointed they were commanded but then they were annointed and all the understanding came with the spirit . Jesus says they would preach what he preached and also more of it revealed when they received the spirit it’s not different it’s just more revealed in the epistles

Notice some things Jesus waited to tell them

“But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.

…Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they believe not on me; of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:4, 7-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Thier underetsnding came when they received the spirit his words never changed they just understood them now. The error comes when people try to reject the things Jesus said they didn’t do that they just received a fuller understanding of them like we still do today once we believe the understanding comes later on like with babies that start to grow and develope and learn

John146 · Feb 4, 2025

keepingthingsreal said:

I've been through this dozens of times with other people. You are not showing me anything different. Can you show me where the work heaven and God are equated?

Question: Can the spiritual kingdom within you (kingdom of God) be taken by force?

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

studentoftheword · Feb 4, 2025

Musicmaster said:

The Cross gave you salvation to be preached ----without the Cross ----your would not have a choice to choose Salvation -----there was only one choice ----Hell

No one could get into Heaven before the Cross ---all Jews and Gentiles were going to Hell ------there was only eternal Death ----which is the 2nd death ----eternal life came from what Jesus accomplished on the CROSS ____with out the Cross --hell was your end ------

So what I see from you post is that the Cross which gave you a choice ---to have eternal life or have eternal death ---is beyond your pay grade of understanding -----you still have the veil on which clouds your mind to understand and your eyes to see-------getting understanding helps -----

Your showing that if your are born again your on Milk still in your understanding -----you need to mature to meat feeding of the Scripture to get what the Cross signifies ------

Proverbs 4:7 -----in all your getting ---Get understanding ---enlightenment

Musicmaster · Feb 4, 2025

studentoftheword said:

All this rhetoric fails to grapple with the Kingdom Gospel and its differences compared to the Gospel of Grace. Setting aside the meaningless claims for ignorance, you are avoiding the glaring differences because...why? Rather than to try and measure the understanding of someone you've never met in person, why not grapple with the topic at hand and the questions asked? This tactic of yours fails to bolster your case while at the same time denying the glaring differences.

MM

PennEd · Feb 4, 2025

keepingthingsreal said:

Yes He did.

He spoke in parables and other cryptic ways SPECIFICALLY said, so they WOULDN'T hear and obey.
To His Disciples He flat out told them He would be crucified, die, and be Resurrected. ONLY them.

keepingthingsreal said:

Yes. It is.

keepingthingsreal said:

This proves the point. This was a SECRET meeting, held at night with ONLY Nicodemus. This was not preached by Jesus to the general Jewish public.

keepingthingsreal said:

I understand this is difficult for especially newer Christians. All paradoxes are difficult.

Jesus said John the Baptist WOULD have been Elijah if the Jews accepted Him.

He also said This:

Matthew 23:37

New King James Version

Jesus Laments over Jerusalem
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

The paradox is, had they been willing, He would have set up His Earthly Kingdom right then and there.

I thank God He blinded them! Else the Gentiles would have been lost.

keepingthingsreal said:

As prophesied on the VERY Day, Jesus rode into Jerusalem as the Mashiach Nagid. Messiah the King. It was the ONLY time in His Earthly ministry that He not only allowed Himself to be called that, but actually ARRANGED for it to happen. The Jewish leadership knew exactly what the people were proclaiming as He trotted into the City. That was the final straw for them to arrange His murder.

keepingthingsreal · Feb 4, 2025

PennEd said:

I honestly cannot believe that you are saying this.

In order to enter into the kingdom of God, we must be born again. And by "we," I mean both Jews and Gentiles alike. Nowhere, neither in the Old Testament nor the New Testament, does it teach that the kingdom of God could come without Jesus' passion preceding it.

PennEd · Feb 4, 2025

keepingthingsreal said:

I honestly cannot believe that you are saying this.

In order to enter into the kingdom of God, we must be born again. And by "we," I mean both Jews and Gentiles alike. Nowhere, neither in the Old Testament nor the New Testament, does it teach that the kingdom of God could come without Jesus' passion preceding it.

Hey. Have a blessed day!

lrs68 · Feb 4, 2025

keepingthingsreal said:

What Jesus said about the Jews being deaf and blind on purpose as PennEd is explaining to you.

13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:

“‘“You will indeed hear but never understand,

and you will indeed see but never perceive.”

15 For this people’s heart has grown dull,

and with their ears they can barely hear,

and their eyes they have closed,

lest they should see with their eyes

and hear with their ears

and understand with their heart

and turn, and I would heal them.

Here's how Paul wrote it..

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 Just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day.”

keepingthingsreal · Feb 4, 2025

PennEd said:

I understand your reference to what Jesus said after giving his parable of the sower, but I think that you are misunderstanding what he actually said. In other words, you seem to be of the mindset that people other than Jesus' disciples never understood his parables, but that is not true.

Mat 21:33
Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Mat 21:34
And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:35
And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36
Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37
But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38
But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39
And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Mat 21:40
When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41
They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44
And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Mat 21:45
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
Mat 21:46
But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

There is no reason to believe that the chief priests and Pharisees did not understand what Jesus was saying here. For starters, Jesus' parable was basically a retelling of what the prophet Isaiah had written (Isaiah 5:1-7), and you can bet your bottom dollar that the chief priests and Pharisees were quite familiar with that portion of scripture. You can also rest assured that they perfectly understood that "his servants" and the "other servants" who were beaten and killed were the Old Testament prophets. Furthermore, they definitely understood that Jesus' references to "his son" and "my son" were references to himself. In other words, elsewhere, they sought to stone Jesus for claiming to be God's Son. You can also be certain that they understood Jesus' citing of Psalm 118:22-23 in verse 42, and how Jesus was equating himself with that stone.

Anyhow, we are plainly told that "when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables," plural, "they perceived," or they understood, "that he spake of them (the chief priests and the Pharisees)." Again, as I have said to somebody else here, understanding something and believing something are not necessarily synonymous. When it comes to Jesus' dealings with the likes of the scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, and chief priests, they did not want to kill him because they did not understand what he was saying. Instead, they wanted to kill him because they did understand what he was saying, but they did not believe in him.

keepingthingsreal · Feb 4, 2025

lrs68 said:

No offense, but I don't need him to explain that to me because I already understand it, and especially the "on purpose" part. Again, as I just finished documenting in my last response here, it is not that Jesus' enemies did not understand the things that he was saying. They perfectly understood what he was saying, and that is why they wanted to kill him. Instead, it is that they did not believe what he was saying, or they did not believe that he was the promised Messiah.

One more time, understanding something and believing something are not necessarily synonymous. Here is a simple example of what I mean.

If I were to tell you that I will meet you in front of your home in 10 minutes, then I trust that you would understand what I am saying.

However, if you did not believe what I was saying, then you would not be waiting for me outside of your home 10 minutes from now.

Hopefully, you understand the distinction between the two.

Hakawaka · Feb 4, 2025

John146 said:

Matthew 19:23-24 kjv
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Its the exact same thing, used interchangeably as shown above.. Matthew uses the phrase kingdom of heaven more as he is writing to a jewish audience

Hakawaka · Feb 4, 2025

keepingthingsreal said:

American dispensationalism at play mate.

keepingthingsreal · Feb 4, 2025

Musicmaster said:

You are the one who is making things up. Not me. Do you think that Peter understood what Jesus said here?

Mat 16:21
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Mat 16:22
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mat 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Peter obviously understood what Jesus said here, but he did not like it. In fact, he rebuked Jesus for saying it, and he was likened to Satan for doing so. Why didn't Peter like what he obviously understood? Because, he savored not the things that be of God, but those that be of men at that time. Anyhow, stop lying about the apostles in relation to what they understood.

Musicmaster said:

I not only answered that question in a previous response by citing to you from Mark 10:32-34, but I also just gave you another clear cut example from Matthew 16:21-23. Again, stop lying about the apostles.

Musicmaster said:

They definitely had a better understanding of the prophetic scriptures themselves after his passion, but this does not diminish the fact that he told them about these things beforehand.

Musicmaster said:

Neither you nor anybody else has shown a single instance where I have assumed anything into scripture that isn't there or where I have made anything up. Instead, I have backed my assertions from scipture.

keepingthingsreal · Feb 4, 2025

Hakawaka said:

For any rational person, what you just posted here would put an end to this part of the discussion. Sad to say, it won't.

keepingthingsreal · Feb 4, 2025

Hakawaka said:

You are preaching to the choir, my brother. Dispensationalism is the heretical cake, and the pre-tribulation rapture is the cherry on top of it. I repudiate both.

GWH · Feb 4, 2025

Hakawaka said:

Yes although the kingdom did not come at Pentecost but rather the phrase “kingdom of God” was superseded by “the church of Christ”.

Gospel Confusion...

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