Is Open Theism Heresy?

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CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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And it's all found in scripture. We can read about how it's going to finish up.
LOL, it is not all found in scripture

We have not fully arrived. We only receive enough for salvation, worship of GOD, and righteous living.

We are limited.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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But we are talking about GOD, not someone who holds to open theism. In the Divine Nature of God, he is omniscience
the context to this Attribute is Omni" means "all" and "science" refers to knowledge, so "omniscience" literally translates to "all-knowing."

Fully and completely without Limitations. Human rationality cannot demolish GOD nature.
Special pleading is alogical fallacy.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Special pleading is alogical fallacy.

"Special pleading" is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone makes an exception to a rule or argument without justifying why that exception is necessary.


FYI, I provided the word of GOD your issue is with that

Essentially, it's when someone argues that a case should be treated differently without offering valid reasons for why it should be, often to defend a position that’s hard to justify.

You may disagree, but one was provided, and Scripture was given. You have not provided any scripture to refute my understanding; therefore, your argument is weak.


For example, if someone says, "I know the rule is that no one can be late, but I should be allowed to be late because I had a bad day," they’re committing special pleading

sounds like your argument


You are trying to make an exception for yourself without offering a logical reason why Open Theism should be treated differently from what the text provides in Jonah

In short, you are applying double standards without proper justification.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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that He knows all things past present and future, stands.

Isaiah 46:10

Isaiah 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, 'My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.'
:)
 

PAC-fit

Active member
Sep 20, 2018
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If you believe that God has weaknesses, then I question who your "god" is.
No weaknesses? Your denying Him of the fact of his weaknesses if you maintain He had none, for some of them are declared openly, ''but emptied Himself, having taken the form of a servant, having been made in the likeness of men.''(2Cr 12:9) How is the strength to do that NOT ''made perfect'' in that weakness. Not to mention that it is His own doing to ''search the hearts'' Your 'know all things' (1John 3:20) is therefore subject to just such an action.
 
Nov 14, 2024
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No weaknesses? Your denying Him of the fact of his weaknesses if you maintain He had none, for some of them are declared openly, ''but emptied Himself, having taken the form of a servant, having been made in the likeness of men.''(2Cr 12:9) How is the strength to do that NOT ''made perfect'' in that weakness. Not to mention that it is His own doing to ''search the hearts'' Your 'know all things' (1John 3:20) is therefore subject to just such an action.
Those early verses pertain to the Son. I was talking about God the Father. Go ahead. List some of his weaknesses.
 

Believer08

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Jan 27, 2025
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is it possible to take na open view but not take it to the point of denying His omniscience.
 

PAC-fit

Active member
Sep 20, 2018
362
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If you believe that God has weaknesses, then I question who your "god" is.
No weaknesses? Your denying Him of the fact of his weaknesses if you maintain He had none, for some of them are declared openly, ''but emptied Himself, having taken the form of a servant, having been made in the likeness of men.''(2Cr 12:9) How is the strength to do that NOT ''made perfect'' in that weakness. Not to mention that it is His own doing to ''search the hearts'' Your 'know all things' (1John 3:20) is therefore subject to just such an action. 1 Cor 1:25
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,166
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No weaknesses? Your denying Him of the fact of his weaknesses if you maintain He had none, for some of them are declared openly, ''but emptied Himself, having taken the form of a servant, having been made in the likeness of men.''(2Cr 12:9) How is the strength to do that NOT ''made perfect'' in that weakness. Not to mention that it is His own doing to ''search the hearts'' Your 'know all things' (1John 3:20) is therefore subject to just such an action.
LOL. You don't know the doctrine of Kenosis

First off, Jesus said 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” John 10:18 Willful submission is not a weakness. It is Meekness.


and the likeness of something is not an admission of accepting all of the likenesses. God became man; man did not become GOD.

The weakness was in enduring the cross period.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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God sent Jonah to tell Nineveh to repent even though he knew they would not?
God sent Jonah to Nineveh to preach destruction. Repentance was not part of the message.

“Yet forty days and Nineveh shall be destroyed.”

The people of Nineveh believed God, fasted and repented of their evil.

“9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?”

When the people repented, God repented.

“10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.”
 

PAC-fit

Active member
Sep 20, 2018
362
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LOL. You don't know the doctrine of Kenosis

First off, Jesus said 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” John 10:18 Willful submission is not a weakness. It is Meekness.


and the likeness of something is not an admission of accepting all of the likenesses. God became man; man did not become GOD.

The weakness was in enduring the cross period.
No prob with that, He laid it down. So, you can't quite accept He did in fact that emptying?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Option #3 (the truth): God didn't reveal everything that He knew or had decided.

Proverbs 25:2a It is the glory of God to conceal a matter
But we have what God said. That I trust. Adding to scripture to fit a theology is not good Bible study.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,822
527
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"Special pleading" is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone makes an exception to a rule or argument without justifying why that exception is necessary.


FYI, I provided the word of GOD your issue is with that

Essentially, it's when someone argues that a case should be treated differently without offering valid reasons for why it should be, often to defend a position that’s hard to justify.

You may disagree, but one was provided, and Scripture was given. You have not provided any scripture to refute my understanding; therefore, your argument is weak.


For example, if someone says, "I know the rule is that no one can be late, but I should be allowed to be late because I had a bad day," they’re committing special pleading

sounds like your argument


You are trying to make an exception for yourself without offering a logical reason why Open Theism should be treated differently from what the text provides in Jonah

In short, you are applying double standards without proper justification.
If John can say that Christians have an anointing and know all things, and that God knows all things, then "knows all things" does not seem to mean what classical omniscience insists it must. To claim that it means something different in one case because it is being applied to God in that case, is special pleading.

I have no issue with the word of God. I may disagree with some persons parsing of the Word of God. I may understand the Word of God to be saying something different from what you see. I can justify my understanding from cthe original languages and context, without question-begging. Those defending classical omniscience tend to question-beg and special-plead in their arguments.

"But we are talking about GOD, not someone who holds to open theism" is special pleading
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,476
3,761
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But we are talking about GOD, not someone who holds to open theism. In the Divine Nature of God, he is omniscience
the context to this Attribute is Omni" means "all" and "science" refers to knowledge, so "omniscience" literally translates to "all-knowing."

Fully and completely without Limitations. Human rationality cannot demolish GOD nature.
Yes, all knowledge. God is perfect in knowledge. Why do you feel future events and decisions are knowledge? It hasn’t come to pass. DeciSimon’s and events may change.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,166
4,386
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God sent Jonah to Nineveh to preach destruction. Repentance was not part of the message.

“Yet forty days and Nineveh shall be destroyed.”

The people of Nineveh believed God, fasted and repented of their evil.

“9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?”

When the people repented, God repented.

“10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.”
LOL


Jonah Chapter One:

Now the word of the Lord came to Jonah the son of Amittai, saying, 2 “Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry out against it; for their wickedness has come up before Me.”
after the fish spit him out chapter three states :
Chapter 3
3 Now the word of the Lord came to Jonah the second time, saying, 2 “Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and preach to it the message that I tell you.”

What was the message? Judgement is coming "Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”

They repented because of Jonah's preaching.
 
Nov 14, 2024
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God sent Jonah to Nineveh to preach destruction. Repentance was not part of the message.

“Yet forty days and Nineveh shall be destroyed.”
Repentance was always an option. Don't take my word for it. Take Jonah's word for it. He knew it, and that is why he initially fled from God's call.

Jon 4:1
But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.
Jon 4:2
And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.