Understanding God’s election

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studier

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studier

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As a former English teacher I am amazed by those who want/choose/will to disagree with dictionary definitions!
What doctrinal heresy is committed by understanding choosing and willing to be synonymous with yielding?
Elaborate please.
 

lrs68

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Dec 30, 2024
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As a former English teacher I am amazed by those who want/choose/will to disagree with dictionary definitions!
What doctrinal heresy is committed by understanding choosing and willing to be synonymous with yielding?
Excellent observation (y)

I haven't been here very long but quickly understood why many here preach Sola Scripture because their personal Interpretation didn't closely align with most Theologians and Scholars.

The very fact they don't understand the difference between (as you have mentioned) {want/choose/will to disagree with dictionary definitions} and then apply that incorrectly to {yielding} just solidifies their need to push Sola Scripture [their incorrect interpretation].
 

Magenta

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2 Timothy 1:9~ He has saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time began. Ephesians 1:4-5~ He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will. Ephesians 1:11~ In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will.
 

rogerg

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Excellent observation (y)

I haven't been here very long but quickly understood why many here preach Sola Scripture because their personal Interpretation didn't closely align with most Theologians and Scholars.

The very fact they don't understand the difference between (as you have mentioned) {want/choose/will to disagree with dictionary definitions} and then apply that incorrectly to {yielding} just solidifies their need to push Sola Scripture [their incorrect interpretation].
Scripture, and scripture alone, was designed and written by God to be its own dictionary and is fully self-contained pertaining to His plan of salvation. The definitions derived from a dictionary written by man, shouldn't be trusted for such if that was your point.

[2Ti 3:16-17 KJV]
16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 

studier

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Great word. I haven't used it for some time in favor of some synonyms such as "bow" and "submit" (submission).

NKJ John4:21-24 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 "You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." 25 The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming" (who is called Christ). "When He comes, He will tell us all things." 26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am He."

"worship" is a weak translation of the word proskuneō (my underlines):

Bauer-Danker, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT (BDAG)

[BDAG] προσκυνέω
• προσκυνέω (κυνέω ‘to kiss’) impf. προσεκύνουν; fut. προσκυνήσω; 1 aor. προσεκύνησα (trag., Hdt.+. Freq. used to designate the custom of prostrating oneself before persons and kissing their feet or the hem of their garment, the ground, etc.; the Persians did this in the presence of their deified king, and the Greeks before a divinity or someth. holy.) to express in attitude or gesture one’s complete dependence on or submission to a high authority figure, (fall down and) worship, do obeisance to, prostrate oneself before, do reverence to, welcome respectfully,

NAS Psalm 95:6 Come, let us worship and bow down; Let us kneel before the LORD our Maker.

A great word study for anyone who does such things. Since ACCORDING TO JESUS this is the yielded mindset and actuality (in Spirit and Truth) God is looking for, it seems we should all do this study and then look deeply into the mirror at ourselves.
 

studier

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No its not, thats your excuse for avoiding the truth

Not much work with Scripture to consider here to say the least. Just the terrible two's over & over again...

Why don't you pick up your Strong's and take us through that Scripture at least in close context verse by verse. Don't consider it helping me. Find another mindset that works for you such as loving the Word and explaining it so everybody can understand it.
 

NOV25

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Don't argue with these fools, simply inform/remind them: where you find heresy you will find one common denominator. Roman Catholic Church, lgbtq/abortion affirming, Prosperity, Islam, Mormon... All satanic religions share a "synergistic spirit" with ALL heretical "christian" denominations/teachers.

On the flip side, throughout church history there has been one immovable, monergistic minority who claims salvation is entirely of the Lord.

To be clear, I'm not stating all monergists are saved and all synergists are not, just be aware of the company you keep and the spirit in which you keep it. It is the spirit of antichrist that seeks to usurp God's ability and claim it for himself. You've been warned.
 

lrs68

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Dec 30, 2024
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Scripture, and scripture alone, was designed and written by God to be its own dictionary and is fully self-contained pertaining to His plan of salvation. The definitions derived from a dictionary written by man, shouldn't be trusted for such if that was your point.

[2Ti 3:16-17 KJV]
16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Your verse examples only state SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN not that SCRIPTURE IS UNDERSTOOD.

I find it intriguing how those pushing FALSE DOCTRINE will malign and misuse the Scriptures you are using and they never mention anything about understanding, only about they were given by God.

Once again, you prove the issue with Sola Scripture because your views DO NOT ALIGN with true Theologians and Scholars. You don't even understand the verses you use for your argument because they actually prove you TO BE WRONG. But you don't understand thinking they prove your views. It's quite hilarious actually. It's why I let several posts be made then I'll read through them and it's like comedy hour for me (y)
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Not much work with Scripture to consider here to say the least. Just the terrible two's over & over again...

Why don't you pick up your Strong's and take us through that Scripture at least in close context verse by verse. Don't consider it helping me. Find another mindset that works for you such as loving the Word and explaining it so everybody can understand it.
Since when did you start believing scripture ?
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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When I can I'll consider looking at this additional lengthy "tome" as I recall your referring to one of my posts. I wish you would cease drawing back to these staple verses of your tradition. After nearly 10,000 posts I'm sure they've been addressed many times.

In quick glance I saw the typical reference to Lydia in Acts. A "heart transplant" huh? That's what opening her heart to pay attention to Paul means?

Firstly, do some work on the correlation to mind and heart and explain to me the difference. Here are the verses in Luke-Acts: I'll hit a few with underlines.

NKJ Lk. 1:17 "He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, 'to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,' and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
NKJ Lk. 1:51 He has shown strength with His arm; He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
NKJ Lk. 1:66 And all those who heard them kept them in their hearts, saying, "What kind of child will this be?" And the hand of the Lord was with him.
NKJ Lk. 2:19 But Mary kept all these things and pondered them in her heart.
NKJ Lk. 2:35 "(yes, a sword will pierce through your own soul also), that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed."
NKJ Lk. 2:51 Then He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was subject to them, but His mother kept all these things in her heart.
NKJ Lk. 3:15 Now as the people were in expectation, and all reasoned in their hearts about John, whether he was the Christ or not,
NKJ Lk. 4:18 "The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
NKJ Lk. 5:22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, He answered and said to them, "Why are you reasoning in your hearts?
NKJ Lk. 6:45 "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
NKJ Lk. 8:12 "Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
NKJ Lk. 8:15 "But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.
NKJ Lk. 9:47 And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a little child and set him by Him,
NKJ Lk. 10:27 So he answered and said, "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbor as yourself.'"
NKJ Lk. 12:34 "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
NKJ Lk. 12:45 "But if that servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk,
NKJ Lk. 16:15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
NKJ Lk. 21:14 "Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer;
NKJ Lk. 21:34 "But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly.
NKJ Lk. 24:25 Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
NKJ Lk. 24:32 And they said to one another, "Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?"
NKJ Lk. 24:38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts?
NKJ Acts 2:26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad; Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
NKJ Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
NKJ Acts 2:46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
NKJ Acts 4:32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common.
NKJ Acts 5:3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?
NKJ Acts 5:4 "While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."
NKJ Acts 7:23 "Now when he was forty years old, it came into his heart to visit his brethren, the children of Israel.
NKJ Acts 7:39 "whom our fathers would not obey, but rejected. And in their hearts they turned back to Egypt,
NKJ Acts 7:51 "You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.
NKJ Acts 7:54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth.
NKJ Acts 8:21 "You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.
NKJ Acts 8:22 "Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
NKJ Acts 11:23 When he came and had seen the grace of God, he was glad, and encouraged them all that with purpose of heart they should continue with the Lord.
NKJ Acts 13:22 "And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, 'I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.'
NKJ Acts 14:17 "Nevertheless He did not leave Himself without witness, in that He did good, gave us rain from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness."
NKJ Acts 15:9 "and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
NKJ Acts 16:14 Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.
NKJ Acts 21:13 Then Paul answered, "What do you mean by weeping and breaking my heart? For I am ready not only to be bound, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus."
NKJ Acts 28:27 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them."'
And what do all those passages have to do with saint Lydia's open heart transplant? :rolleyes:
 

Rufus

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Implications....

It is a different soteriology than Paul preached, denying that people can believe the Gospel, one has to wait on God to be selected.

Regeneration preceding faith is not taught in scripture.

It changes the character of God, to a god who only loves some.

This (Calvinist soteriology whether the full expression or select parts) creates an elitist mind set.

It fashions a god who is morally ambivalent and not trustworthy.

If one accepts the full doctrine of Calvinism then it makes God the author of evil.

Requiring saving faith to be a gift of God (not supported by the scripture) is a calvinistic doctrine which again means that God selects those to whom He will bequeath salvation.

It is emotionally and mentally destructive that is why we hear testimonies of people be set free from its bondage.

I could go on...but I will spare myself.

The elect are those who have believed (by the power of the truth inherent in the Gospel and the outworking NOT inner working of the HS) and are placed in Christ.
Or...God only loves many. After all, he hates/detests sin and sinners alike (Prov 11:2; 20). (Same word, by the way, in both texts.) You don't know this?
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Your verse examples only state SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN not that SCRIPTURE IS UNDERSTOOD.

I find it intriguing how those pushing FALSE DOCTRINE will malign and misuse the Scriptures you are using and they never mention anything about understanding, only about they were given by God.

Once again, you prove the issue with Sola Scripture because your views DO NOT ALIGN with true Theologians and Scholars. You don't even understand the verses you use for your argument because they actually prove you TO BE WRONG. But you don't understand thinking they prove your views. It's quite hilarious actually. It's why I let several posts be made then I'll read through them and it's like comedy hour for me (y)
It is you who does not understand. "true Theologians and Scholars" didn't write scripture, God did.
Since scripture alone was given by God, and scripture alone can make the "man of God THROUGHLY furnished unto good works", then scripture alone must also include within itself, the keys to its own interpretation.
Further, it would be a complete logical impossibility, for God to have made such a claim about scripture and yet not have also provided everything in scripture necessary to satisfy that claim. Were scripture incomplete even to the slightest degree, then God's claim would be incorrect and a lie and scripture untrustworthy.
Furthermore, you missed the "is profitable" (v16) and "thoroughly furnished" (v17) parts. which demonstrates precisely what you said it doesn't demonstrate. Read the verses again only this time ponder them more closely.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Or...God only loves many. After all, he hates/detests sin and sinners alike (Prov 11:2; 20). (Same word, by the way, in both texts.) You don't know this?
Amen Ps 5:5

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
 

studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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Or...God only loves many. After all, he hates/detests sin and sinners alike (Prov 11:2; 20). (Same word, by the way, in both texts.) You don't know this?

And your source(s) for "hates" in these verses?

2 When pride comes, then comes shame; But with the humble is wisdom. (Prov. 11:2 NKJ)

20 Those who are of a perverse heart are an abomination to the LORD, But the blameless in their ways are His delight. (Prov. 11:20 NKJ)