The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”

[Kroogz]

The only reason one can say they were never saved is because they do not want to handle the truth. You cannot lose it, but if you do then you never had it to lose it, which makes no sense. Yes, there are all kinds of problems saying someone was never saved if or when they got saved according to God’s word, as it makes God’s word out to be a liar, which it is not. And if you cannot judge, then you should stop saying someone was never saved.,

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.Period. I believe everyone in this discussion has done this at some point. And are saved.

What we have after this is.......Winners or second place in His kingdom.

There is no such thing as loss of salvation in His word. But there is loss of reign and rank in heaven. Heaven is not equal. Heaven is perfectly un-equal......And it all depends on what we do with What He has given us in time.

 

[Believer08]

What is ironic is..the people who are now considered never saved…are more than likely the same who believed and said the same things as those on this forum who says “so and so were never saved”. That means at this very moment…all who believe that…can just as easily be (according to their view)…never saved…

For all of those who are considered never saved (if they truly believed they were and knew they were..and were very devoted) are the same as all the others who says that about their salvation…but are now deemed “never saved”

Again, that means at this very moment…all who believe in the “never saved” argument is also never saved to begin with…when taking it consistently…

It also has the ugly reality of someone who for decades lived and had every single appearance of a Christian only to be told they were never a Christian in the first place, leaving all the others who had the same evidence to question whether they are saved or not. Someone who is said to be saved can still fall away and thereby prove that they were never regenerated/saved at all, even though they had the same evidence of having salvation that others have to point to their own conversion…but it will be deemed as fake evidence….so again…that means all who believe in saying someone was “never saved to begin with”…has fake evidence…
To be true and honest with their belief, no person who believes in OSAS would categorize anyone to be saved, as such an individual can only prove their salvation to be genuine by dying to the faith.

One is considered bearing fruit ends up being fake fruit…etc etc….

Only death to the faith (for the OSAS) can prove whether one’s salvation is true or not…

They cannot know whether anyone is saved. Not even their own self.

All the evidences for a Christian goes out the window in that belief…same evidences as everyone else has…

 

[Believer08]

OSAS has no dog in the fight. It’s a deceiving doctrine on so many levels…it deceives people into thinking that obedience earns salvation…deceives people to be illogical…deceives people into living in sin since they are always saved and told that nothing they can do can cause them to be lost…yet when taking to its logical conclusion…they will be told they were never saved…

No one knows who is saved in OSAS….which goes completely against what the Bible says…1 John 5:13

 

[Kroogz]

OSAS has no dog in the fight. It’s a deceiving doctrine on so many levels…it deceives people into thinking that obedience earns salvation…deceives people to be illogical…deceives people into living in sin since they are always saved and told that nothing they can do can cause them to be lost…yet when taking to its logical conclusion…they will be told they were never saved…

No one knows who is saved in OSAS….which goes completely against what the Bible says…1 John 5:13

Lordship salvation is a scourge on Christianity. I will give you that.

Eternal security is not. We will never perish. There is no condemnation. We have eternal life. We are not our own. Nothing can separate us from His love.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The only reason one can say they were never saved is because they do not want to handle the truth.

And what truth would this be?

You cannot lose it, but if you do then you never had it to lose it, which makes no sense.

Your right you can't lose it. eternal is eternal forever.

Yes, there are all kinds of problems saying someone was never saved if or when they got saved according to God’s word, as it makes God’s word out to be a liar, which it is not. And if you cannot judge, then you should stop saying someone was never saved.,

um, a person who is an antichrist. who claims to have been saved is a liar.

Maybe you need to study up on the word some

As for anything else. I can not tell if a person is saved or not. when someone tries to tell me someone else lost salvation because they live in sin. I would say they were never saved to begin with, if in fact they are not saved now. but I would not judge them.

I would suggest before you try telling people they are wrong. you try to find out what they are saying first..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

What is ironic is..the people who are now considered never saved…

who is considered never saved? But a person who does not believe. and as the word says, they are condemned already..

again, Your argument is flawed. what are you arguing against?

 

[Magenta]

No one knows who is saved in OSAS….which goes completely against what the Bible says…1 John 5:13

You are reading that verse all wrong if you think it is telling us that we can know who else is saved besides ourselves. And in the process you keep denying 1 John 2:19

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

OSAS has no dog in the fight. It’s a deceiving doctrine on so many levels…it deceives people into thinking that obedience earns salvation…

Um no it does not.. I would also suggest you stop making things up. Your going off what maybe some people have told you. why don;t you ask a person who actually believes in once saved always saved.

Let me guess. youare arguing against calvinism? News flash. The view that once a person is saved, they will always be saved did nto start with calvin or any fatalisitic view. it started in the word of God

deceives people to be illogical…deceives people into living in sin since they are always saved and told that nothing they can do can cause them to be lost…

Oh here we go. the false argument that those who trust God and God created into a new creature wants to live in sin because they think they can.

what about the people who think they can sin, and get resaved because they said a prayer or did some penance.

Your hurting your own argument.

yet when taking to its logical conclusion…they will be told they were never saved…

Yawn, this is getting old.

No one knows who is saved in OSAS….which goes completely against what the Bible says…1 John 5:13

No one is saved in osas. osas is not the gospel. whoever is saved with the gospel. will always be saved though.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Lordship salvation is a scourge on Christianity. I will give you that.

Eternal security is not. We will never perish. There is no condemnation. We have eternal life. We are not our own. Nothing can separate us from His love.

I think he is arguing against calvinism. like so many do,. and try to lump us all under that doctrine

 

[Believer08]

You are reading that verse all wrong if you think it is telling us that we can know who else is saved besides ourselves.

Then you have proved my point about OSAS.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Then you have proved my point about OSAS.

She did?? lol.. I think you just proved you do not know what she said.

 

[Believer08]

Lordship salvation is a scourge on Christianity. I will give you that.

Eternal security is not. We will never perish. There is no condemnation. We have eternal life. We are not our own. Nothing can separate us from His love.

You can say that, sure, as did all the others who were deemed never saved.

 

[Magenta]

Then you have proved my point about OSAS.

Somehow I doubt it but if you want to think that go right ahead. You are determined to deny and contradict 1 John 2:19.

 

[Believer08]

who is considered never saved? But a person who does not believe. and as the word says, they are condemned already..

again, Your argument is flawed. what are you arguing against?

My argument is not flawed at all. A person who believes would you say they are saved? Yet, if they stop believing they never did? Thus, you’re also never saved as well.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You can say that, sure, as did all the others who were deemed never saved.

again, name a person who was deemed never saved?

You appear to be like a broken record.

 

[Believer08]

Somehow I doubt it but if you want to think that go right ahead. YOU Are determined to deny and contradict 1 John 2:19.

Again, we are discussing two different groups of people. Those who are saved and are now lost, as opposed to those who never were. You continue to talk about the latter, while I am not. 1 John 2:19 does not say one was NEVER saved. Would you apply that to yourself?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

My argument is not flawed at all. A person who believes would you say they are saved?

I can not judge a persons salvation. Just because a person tells me they believe does not mean anything.

Many claim to believe. not all are saved.

Yet, if they stop believing they never did?

Well the apostle John said this is the truth. should I listen to you or the apostle John?

Thus, you’re also never saved as well.

Oh. so now I am not saved??

what a joke.. are you a troll??

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Again, we are discussing two different groups of people. Those who are saved and are now lost,

There are no such people. they are immaginary.. since no one can be lost.

as opposed to those who never were. You continue to talk about the latter, while I am not. 1 John 2:19 does not say one was NEVER saved. Would you apply that to yourself?

if you think salvation can be lost. I feel sorry for you. repent and put your faith in God and stop trusting in yourself.

 

[Believer08]

And what truth would this be?

Your right you can't lose it. eternal is eternal forever.

um, a person who is an antichrist. who claims to have been saved is a liar.

Maybe you need to study up on the word some

As for anything else. I can not tell if a person is saved or not. when someone tries to tell me someone else lost salvation because they live in sin. I would say they were never saved to begin with, if in fact they are not saved now. but I would not judge them.

I would suggest before you try telling people they are wrong. you try to find out what they are saying first..

The truth would be that a Christian can indeed fall away. But you don’t want to admit that so you will just say they were never saved. Every Christian you know is never saved then.

Concerning the false argument if OSAS, it is also false to accuse one of earning salvation.

 

[Believer08]

@Everlasting-Grace, a person who is a Christian who becomes an Antichrist does is a liar that they are a faithful Christian. They are not lying about at one time being a faithful Christian if and when they got saved biblically. God’s word is not a lie. If one gets saved biblically, they are saved. For those who become antichrists, then are erring Christians in need to repentance.