Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Pilgrimshope]

We are souls, not spirits, as evidenced by the eight who were saved. We don't have a spirit which is why we have to be born, spiritually.

A soul is a living spirit inside a body created of dust that’s what we are a body that has no life in it but a spirit that then gives the body life and thought and feeling

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“All the while my breath is in me, And the spirit of God is in my nostrils;”
‭‭Job‬ ‭27:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Mans body was made of the earth but what gave us life is what came out of God and went into that dead body. Our spirit . Then we became a living soul a souls isn’t contrary to a spirit a spirit is the living part of a soul . the flesh is the part that doesn’t last and is appointed to die first and then the judgement is the spirit that returns to God who gave it

“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was body)

and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”( spirit )
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die,

but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The flesh and blood can’t inherit the kongdom because it’s appointed to death

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Our flesh is corrupt and condemned to die but our spirit can be saved from the second death at the judgement

“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:14-15‬ ‭

 

[Genez]

you’re using an example of someone wanting to bury thier dead reletive before following Jesus ….as an example that we’re all born spiritually dead ? I’m not sure how to respond to that

The guy wanted to bury his dad before he left to follow Jesus this doesn’t have anything to do with saying mankind is spiritually dead look at what God said to people all along

man’s flesh is appointed to die because of sin our spirit is going to be judged by the lord

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, ( flesh )

but after this the judgment:”( spirit )
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; ( our spirit ) that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”( while we lived in our body )
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in the ot when people died for instance those in Noah’s time who died in the flood they weren’t spiritually dead tbier spirits were on a spiritual prison described in tbe ot where they waited for Christ to come visit them

“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a man’s spirits slept if they belonged to the lord like Joshua who’s spirit was woken up by sauls diviner his spirit wasn’t dead his body had died but his spirit was alive and well just resting in those days

“And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself. And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?

And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.”
‭‭1 Samuel‬ ‭28:14-15‬ ‭

Oir spirits aren’t dead they are surely going to die because of sin that’s why we have to hear and believe the gospel that’s about repentance and remission of our sins n Christ Jesus

We don’t want to be these folks who shall die

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

insteadof that fate of certain condemnation and death …we can have this one

“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

all the sinners are being called to repent and believe and be saved

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-40‬ ‭

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬


We’re going to die if we don’t respond to the lord it’s certain , but so is salvation of we hear and believe him and respond

You wrote all that?
Because you missed a single point???

Here again....

I cited the following...

He said to another man, “Follow me.”​

​

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”​

​

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead,​

but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” Luke 9:59-60​

So, your response?

you’re using an example of someone wanting to bury thier dead reletive before following Jesus ….as an example that we’re all born spiritually dead ? I’m not sure how to respond to that.

The detail you missed somehow? How could you????

Jesus was telling that man...
Those who were to bury his PHYSICALLY dead father?
Were, to be SPIRITUALLY dead relatives.

It's not that complicated.
It only takes a little analysis.
Nothing too deep....


Have a nice Day.

 

[Genez]

A soul is a living spirit inside a body created of dust that’s what we are a body that has no life in it but a spirit that then gives the body life and thought and feeling

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“All the while my breath is in me, And the spirit of God is in my nostrils;”
‭‭Job‬ ‭27:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬‭

Job? Was born again!!!!!!!!!!!

So? He had the human spirit, and the sprit of prophesy was working in him.

Please... Get it to be simple by learning from good teachers. Learn what the intent means.

 

[sawdust]

A soul is a living spirit inside a body created of dust that’s what we are a body that has no life in it but a spirit that then gives the body life and thought and feeling

God did not form a corpse from the ground. Adam's body had biological life at it's formation. What it lacked was human life (soul) and spiritual life (spirit). God breathed in the breath of lives and Adam became a living soul, not a living spirit. Angels are spirits, we are souls.

How can a soul be a living spirit? It would mean any unbeliever which, would also include us at one time, would be without a soul. You can't be a dead soul, only a spiritually dead soul that is, a soul without a spirit.

The essence of who and what we are is soul, created in the image and likeness of God. Initially, all are born body and soul then, when we believe, born again to acquire a spirit. The essence of spirit is immortal because it comes from the "substance" of God who is spirit and this is why the believer will never die. We all still die physically, we are not saved from physical death. Our bodies contain the sin nature so they are not redeemed but transformed through the Resurrection. God destroys the sinful flesh and recreates new bodies.

"Spirit gives birth to spirit". We lack a spirit which is why we must be born from above, which is why we cannot comprehend spiritual matters, which is why we are cut off from God. We inherit Adam's sin nature, a corruption in our flesh (Rom.7:23), which is why God imputes the consequences of Adam's sin (spiritual death) to us at birth even though we have committed no personal sin of our own.

If you are physically dead? You don't have a body. If you are spiritually dead? You don't have a spirit.

Simple.

 

[Genez]

Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

The question never asked....

Can God make us enabled to exercise free will...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You wrote all that?
Because you missed a single point???

Here again....

I cited the following...

He said to another man, “Follow me.”​

​

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”​

​

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead,​

but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” Luke 9:59-60​

So, your response?



The detail you missed somehow? How could you????

Jesus was telling that man...
Those who were to bury his PHYSICALLY dead father?
Were, to be SPIRITUALLY dead relatives.

It's not that complicated.
It only takes a little analysis.
Nothing too deep....


Have a nice Day.

Not at all. Jesus wasn’t explaining that everyone’s spiritually dead there is my point. I can read and what you wuoted was pretty simple. My point is Jesus isn’t saying anything at all about everyone bieng spiritually dead there . Pretty simple in my opinion .

i had asked for scripture that tells us everyone’s born spiritually dead. And you quoted this which doesn’t even touch upon what I asked for

“But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:22‬ ‭

This doesn’t support the point everyone’s spiritually dead. It’s a sentance from an event when a man wanted to bury his father before following Jesus and is inno way telling us “ your all born spiritually dead and can’t hear what God says”

It’s sort of a silly concept after reading the Bible . Mankind is not dead we are rebellious and corrupt and made ourselves enemies of God which will end in the second death

after our body dies because of sin ( which I thought everyone’s knew happens first ) then we have to be judged by the lord not our dead body but our living spirit that’s always been alive in mankind and which God is trying to redeem and save from impending death

It’s this dynamic friend God isn’t speaking to already dead people

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he’s telling people if you hear my word and keep it you will live and be blessed . But if you reject my word and rebel you will be cursed and die.

You don’t say this to already dead people no one’s spirit is dead yet notice this man’s body is buried but he himself wakes up in hell

“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you think it’s his buried body in hell ? Because his spirit was already dead before he was born or ?

To be clear I understood what you were trying to make support that everyone’s born spiritually dead I just reject that it supports the point even a little bit.


We aren’t born dead . Jesus is trying to save us from death that’s hanging over us who walk in the shadow of it knowing we can’t escape it as humans.

Biblically We’re all born with a death sentance appointed to death of our flesh and blood and then will face judgement by our living spirit that will either inherit eternal life or be cast into the lake of fire with Satan s another spiritual being and inherit the second death of the spiritual nature when a man will perish or live forever

We will die for certain if we do t repent and believe the lord, but we aren’t dead to the lord no one is at any time until the second death in the end

“For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:38‬ ‭

abraham Isaac and jacobs bodies died like all of us do but thier spirits rested with thier fathers . After thier bodies died to await judgement and inheritance. But none were ever “ spiritually dead “ the spirit won’t die until the second death in the lake of fire

It’s bad wording the bi ke doesn’t teach us we are spiritually dead . It teaches us our body is dead because of sin , our body cannot inherit the kingdom , our body is appointed to death and decay but our spirit is sick and needs healing and redemption ect

when you are “ born again “ that’s when Jesus comes to dwell with you in your heart to redeem you from sin and certain death which is the end of sin not a pre condition for it .

It works like this it’s a process that we engage in

“but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:14-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sin brings death we aren’t born dead we sin and then we’re sentenced to death and will be executed come the time of judgement and recompense. Unless there’s an atonement a reconciliation unless there’s mercy and a new and better way that offers forgivness for our sins that bring death and salvation from death and eternal life even after our bodies die


“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have life but not eternal life yet we need the gospel so we dont receive the second death afterwards of our spirit…..

we have to die once but that’s our body.
Our spirit can inherit life eternal or eternal death in the lake of fire.

We definately need Jesus to inherit eternal life but we aren’t dead yet we can be saved by the lord from death….

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Job? Was born again!!!!!!!!!!!

So? He had the human spirit, and the sprit of prophesy was working in him.

Please... Get it to be simple by learning from good teachers. Learn what the intent means.

job was born again ? And it’s is biblical ?

And yeah God breathed a living spirit into man’s dead body in the beginning at creation that’s my point. That living spirit that came from God that gives us life to begin with , can be saved from death ……and given eternal life.

what they lost in Eden’s exile was gods presence with them intimately dwelling together with them. That’s what the gospel restores to us

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods now with believers again dwelling with us by his spirit.

“I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:18-21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Please... Get it to be simple by learning from good teachers. Learn what the intent means”

teachers like Jesus ? Paul ? Peter ? John ? Yes I try stay away from teachings that are o viously not correct like humans are all spiritually dead I wouldn’t want to follow teachers teaching that I’d rather learn about salvation from death that’s waiting for us all just ahead

 

[Genez]

Not at all. Jesus wasn’t explaining that everyone’s spiritually dead there is my point. .

That was a wrong statement....
And, then you commenced to write many words based upon your error.

Everyone is not spiritually dead.
Those who are born again (by the Spirit) cease being spiritually dead.
That why man needs to be born again.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

God did not form a corpse from the ground. Adam's body had biological life at it's formation. What it lacked was human life (soul) and spiritual life (spirit). God breathed in the breath of lives and Adam became a living soul, not a living spirit. Angels are spirits, we are souls.

How can a soul be a living spirit? It would mean any unbeliever which, would also include us at one time, would be without a soul. You can't be a dead soul, only a spiritually dead soul that is, a soul without a spirit.

The essence of who and what we are is soul, created in the image and likeness of God. Initially, all are born body and soul then, when we believe, born again to acquire a spirit. The essence of spirit is immortal because it comes from the "substance" of God who is spirit and this is why the believer will never die. We all still die physically, we are not saved from physical death. Our bodies contain the sin nature so they are not redeemed but transformed through the Resurrection. God destroys the sinful flesh and recreates new bodies.

"Spirit gives birth to spirit". We lack a spirit which is why we must be born from above, which is why we cannot comprehend spiritual matters, which is why we are cut off from God. We inherit Adam's sin nature, a corruption in our flesh (Rom.7:23), which is why God imputes the consequences of Adam's sin (spiritual death) to us at birth even though we have committed no personal sin of our own.

If you are physically dead? You don't have a body. If you are spiritually dead? You don't have a spirit.

Simple.

“God did not form a corpse from the ground. Adam's body had biological life at its formation. What it lacked was human life (soul) and spiritual life (spirit).”

adam became a living soul. You are a living soul.

You Have a body , and within your body you have a living spirit. The body has no life it’s like a vehicle. It was formed of the earth but not until God breathed his spirit into man , did man become a living soul.

People have a body and a spirit the living part that came from God out of his body into ours he breathed living spirit the breath of life. If he had never given Adam that the body would never have been a living soul or made in a gods image and likeness .

If you look at man’s creation “ his body is formed by God from the dust and then his spirit is breathed into him by God that makes him think and speak and act and move ect it’s like a vehicle and a driver

body is alive only as long as the spirit remains within it then it begins to decay because that’s it’s condemnation for sin. It’s not spiritual death we suffer from but the condemnation of the certain death of our body because of sin. Our body is doomed as good as dead already

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, ( natural)

but after this the judgment:”( spiritual)
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: ( our body )

and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:7‬ ‭KJ

after our spirit leaves our body in death it returns to God who gave it

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Our body is as good as dead already condemned . But the spirit God gave us can be saved from the second death at judgement if we follow the saviors spirit within us follow him home

he came to save the lost sheep wandering . To save sinners calling then to repentance and lasting life offering salvation for our spiritual bodies that aren’t dead yet but outlast even the death of our body

this also whether we believe or not we each still have a living spirit that outlasts the death of our body . Hell for instance and Sheol are places of torments after a persons body dies thier living souls tormented in an unseen and lace physically but a place we are told of where they are tormented in a spiritual form awaiting judgement when they too will appear before judgement.

our bodies are condemned to death it’s why we die . Our spirits can be saved by the lord and glorified with better bodies in a new place to come ….but everyone has the right to think what they will . I think Jesus came to save us because we’re headed for certain doom in the end . The death of body first and then after also our spirit and that the whole bible tells this story of man’s rebellion and God trying to save us and restore us give us our original inheritance and place with him as his children made him n his image and likeness to trust his word and dwell forever with him

i only have my own opinion and thiughts of the scriptures though like all of you guys have your own opinions and thoughts. Always good for us to remember this place is not a seminary but a discussion forum for bu local topics.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That was a wrong statement....
And, then you commenced to write many words based upon your error.

Everyone is not spiritually dead.
Those who are born again (by the Spirit) cease being spiritually dead.
That why man needs to be born again.

Well I suppose it’s pointless to keep going with you then on this I’ll let you have the last word there

 

[GWH]

That was a wrong statement....
And, then you commenced to write many words based upon your error.

Everyone is not spiritually dead.
Those who are born again (by the Spirit) cease being spiritually dead.
That why man needs to be born again.

I think the point of the A&E story is that all are born innocent but sin when they become morally accountable souls and need God's salvation, which has always been by grace through faith with Abraham being the prime example of that truth.