Justification in Romans

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Jeremiah33v3 said:
If you can lose salvation it AINT ETERNAL.
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The Greek term often translated as "eternal life" is "zOE aiOnios" . aiOnios is an adjective formed from the noun aiOn, which means an age or an eon, and refers to a period of time whose end is indeterminate. AiOn does not mean an endless period. And the adjective derived from aiOn does not mean endless. It means age-long, or as I often translate it with a word I coined, "aeonous".

Since aeonous life is not an endless life according to its etymology, a salvation that can end can indeed still be aeonous. That may not be eternal, but then again, aiOnios does not mean eternal anyway.
 
PaulThomson said:
The Greek term often translated as "eternal life" is "zOE aiOnios" . aiOnios is an adjective formed from the noun aiOn, which means an age or an eon, and refers to a period of time whose end is indeterminate. AiOn does not mean an endless period. And the adjective derived from aiOn does not mean endless. It means age-long, or as I often translate it with a word I coined, "aeonous".

Since aeonous life is not an endless life according to its etymology, a salvation that can end can indeed still be aeonous. That may not be eternal, but then again, aiOnios does not mean eternal anyway.
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If it doesnt mean eternal is our eternal life not eternal then? What about eternal damnation?
 
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mailmandan said:
I have read enough of his posts on CC now to know where he is going with this -- salvation by faith and works yet man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) yet genuine faith is evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24)

Romans 16:26 - but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith. Also, in Romans 1:5, we read -p Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name.

Now although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.

*Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:2) not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/works.
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Oh, well, God has graced me with a poor memory so that I cannot remember who said what by the next day or page of posts,
(so I operate one day and one post at a time, sweet Jesus :^)
 
PaulThomson said:
The Greek term often translated as "eternal life" is "zOE aiOnios" . aiOnios is an adjective formed from the noun aiOn, which means an age or an eon, and refers to a period of time whose end is indeterminate. AiOn does not mean an endless period. And the adjective derived from aiOn does not mean endless. It means age-long, or as I often translate it with a word I coined, "aeonous".

Since aeonous life is not an endless life according to its etymology, a salvation that can end can indeed still be aeonous. That may not be eternal, but then again, aiOnios does not mean eternal anyway.
Click to expand...

Seems like you are taking a different position on eternal security of the believer. :unsure:

It also should be noted that the phrase “eternal life” in Greek is aionios zoe, literally: “age life”—referring to the quality or calibre of life that comes from relationship with God in the immediate present.
Link

You do not need to trust the link, research it for yourself.
Saved is saved.
 
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Komentaja said:
If it doesnt mean eternal is our eternal life not eternal then? What about eternal damnation?
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There is more than one concept expressed by the "aionios zoe" and context determines how it is best understood.
 
HeIsHere said:
Seems like you are taking a different position on eternal security of the believer. :unsure:

It also should be noted that the phrase “eternal life” in Greek is aionios zoe, literally: “age life”—referring to the quality or calibre of life that comes from relationship with God in the immediate present.
Link

You do not need to trust the link, research it for yourself.
Saved is saved.
Click to expand...
Strong's Lexicon
aiónios: Eternal, everlasting, forever

https://biblehub.com/greek/166.htm
 
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mailmandan said:
Strong's Lexicon
aiónios: Eternal, everlasting, forever

https://biblehub.com/greek/166.htm
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(y)

I am fine to go with as quality of life depending on context.

[166 (aiṓnios) does not focus on the future per se, but rather on the quality of the age (165 /aiṓn) it relates to. Thus believers live in "eternal (166 /aiṓnios) life" right now, experiencing this quality of God's life now as a present possession. (Note the Gk present tense of having eternal life in Jn 3:36, 5:24, 6:47; cf. Ro 6:23.)]

I think for eschatological reasons "aionos" is best understood as time periods.

I think that there are plenty of verses that affirm the security of the believer, as you know I am very firm on, however one has to admit that when we receive eternal life our quality of life is indeed better.

This also goes with what Jesus stated.

“I came to give life more abundantly”
John 10:10
 
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HeIsHere said:
(y)

I am fine to go with as quality of life depending on context.

[166 (aiṓnios) does not focus on the future per se, but rather on the quality of the age (165 /aiṓn) it relates to. Thus believers live in "eternal (166 /aiṓnios) life" right now, experiencing this quality of God's life now as a present possession. (Note the Gk present tense of having eternal life in Jn 3:36, 5:24, 6:47; cf. Ro 6:23.)]

I think for eschatological reasons "aionos" is best understood as time periods.

I think that there are plenty of verses that affirm the security of the believer, as you know I am very firm on, however one has to admit that when we receive eternal life our quality of life is indeed better.

This also goes with what Jesus stated.

“I came to give life more abundantly”
John 10:10
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The name of the church that I attend is Abundant Life. :)
 
PaulThomson said:
The Greek term often translated as "eternal life" is "zOE aiOnios" . aiOnios is an adjective formed from the noun aiOn, which means an age or an eon, and refers to a period of time whose end is indeterminate. AiOn does not mean an endless period. And the adjective derived from aiOn does not mean endless. It means age-long, or as I often translate it with a word I coined, "aeonous".

Since aeonous life is not an endless life according to its etymology, a salvation that can end can indeed still be aeonous. That may not be eternal, but then again, aiOnios does not mean eternal anyway.
Click to expand...
Believers have life forever. Because it started at a point in time.....The Moment of belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. The age of forever life NEVER ends, but it had a beginning.

  • "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16)
  • "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me" (Galatians 2:20)
 
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Kroogz said:
Believers have life forever. Because it started at a point in time.....The Moment of belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. The age of forever life NEVER ends, but it had a beginning.

  • "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16)
  • "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me" (Galatians 2:20)
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There are temporal benefits to eternal life, we are saved from sin, (not perishing).

I think sometimes we forget about the here and now blessings.
 
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HeIsHere said:
There are temporal benefits to eternal life, we are saved from sin, (not perishing).

I think sometimes we forget about the here and now blessings.
Click to expand...
The moment of salvation believers receive tremendous here and now blessings....
  • Are given the FREE GIFT of salvation (eternal life). Romans 6:23, Ephesians 2:8-9
  • Can KNOW we have eternal life. 1 John 5:13
  • Are part of God’s eternal plan for Believers – Ephesians 1:4
  • Are redeemed and forgiven by Christ – Ephesians1:7
  • Are reconciled to God in Christ – 2 Corinthians 5:19
  • Are beneficiaries of Christ’s payment (propitiation/atonement) for our sins -1 John 2:2
  • Are forgiven all trespasses and sins – Colossians 2:13
  • Have fellowship and communion with Jesus Christ – I Corinthians 1:9
  • Are free from the law of sin and death – Romans 8:2
  • Are a child of God by Faith in Christ – Galatians 3:26
  • Are adopted into God’s family- Ephesians1:4-5
  • Are made acceptable to God by Jesus Christ – 1 Peter 2:5
  • Are justified — declared righteous before a Holy God – Romans 5:1
  • Are made to be near to God – Ephesians2:13
  • Are delivered from the power of Satan. – Colossians 1:13, 2 Corinthians 4:3-6
  • Are translated into the Kingdom of His dear Son – Colossians 1:13
  • Are placed upon the Foundation, The Rock (Jesus Christ) – 1 Corinthians 10:4, 1 Corinthians 3:9-15
  • Are a gift to Christ – John 17:9-10
  • Are circumcised (made without hands) in Christ – Colossians 2:11
  • Are holy and royal priests – 1 Peter 2:5, 9
  • Are a chosen generation, a peculiar (different) people for the purpose — to show forth the praises of Christ – to be holy – 1 Peter 2:9
  • Are citizens of heaven – Philippians 3:20, (21)
  • Are of the family and household of God – Ephesians2:19
  • Are in the fellowship of the saints (believers) – Ephesians2:19
  • Are risen with Christ – In the Heavenlies, – Colossians 3:1, Ephisians 1:3
  • Are granted access to God the Father through Christ – Ephesians2:18
  • Are within the care of God – 1 Peter 5:7
  • Are His inheritance – Ephesians1:18
  • Are beneficiaries of an incorruptible and undefiled inheritance – 1 Peter 1:4
  • Are the light bearers to the world – Romans 1:16, 2 Corinthians 4:3,4
  • Are united eternally with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit – John 14:20, 1 Corinthians 2:12
  • Are blessed with the earnest (down payment) of the Holy Spirit Who guarantees our eternal inheritance in Jesus Christ – Ephesians1:13-14
  • Are baptized into the Body of Christ, by the Holy Spirit the moment we believe – 1 Corinthians 12:13
  • Are sealed with the Holy Spirit the moment we believe – Ephesians1:13
  • Are complete in Christ – Colossians 2:9,10
  • Are called out of darkness into Christ’s Marvelous Light – 1 Peter 2:9
https://expreacherman.com/36-amazing-things/
 
Kroogz said:
The moment of salvation believers receive tremendous here and now blessings....
  • Are given the FREE GIFT of salvation (eternal life). Romans 6:23, Ephesians 2:8-9
  • Can KNOW we have eternal life. 1 John 5:13
  • Are part of God’s eternal plan for Believers – Ephesians 1:4
  • Are redeemed and forgiven by Christ – Ephesians1:7
  • Are reconciled to God in Christ – 2 Corinthians 5:19
  • Are beneficiaries of Christ’s payment (propitiation/atonement) for our sins -1 John 2:2
  • Are forgiven all trespasses and sins – Colossians 2:13
  • Have fellowship and communion with Jesus Christ – I Corinthians 1:9
  • Are free from the law of sin and death – Romans 8:2
  • Are a child of God by Faith in Christ – Galatians 3:26
  • Are adopted into God’s family- Ephesians1:4-5
  • Are made acceptable to God by Jesus Christ – 1 Peter 2:5
  • Are justified — declared righteous before a Holy God – Romans 5:1
  • Are made to be near to God – Ephesians2:13
  • Are delivered from the power of Satan. – Colossians 1:13, 2 Corinthians 4:3-6
  • Are translated into the Kingdom of His dear Son – Colossians 1:13
  • Are placed upon the Foundation, The Rock (Jesus Christ) – 1 Corinthians 10:4, 1 Corinthians 3:9-15
  • Are a gift to Christ – John 17:9-10
  • Are circumcised (made without hands) in Christ – Colossians 2:11
  • Are holy and royal priests – 1 Peter 2:5, 9
  • Are a chosen generation, a peculiar (different) people for the purpose — to show forth the praises of Christ – to be holy – 1 Peter 2:9
  • Are citizens of heaven – Philippians 3:20, (21)
  • Are of the family and household of God – Ephesians2:19
  • Are in the fellowship of the saints (believers) – Ephesians2:19
  • Are risen with Christ – In the Heavenlies, – Colossians 3:1, Ephisians 1:3
  • Are granted access to God the Father through Christ – Ephesians2:18
  • Are within the care of God – 1 Peter 5:7
  • Are His inheritance – Ephesians1:18
  • Are beneficiaries of an incorruptible and undefiled inheritance – 1 Peter 1:4
  • Are the light bearers to the world – Romans 1:16, 2 Corinthians 4:3,4
  • Are united eternally with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit – John 14:20, 1 Corinthians 2:12
  • Are blessed with the earnest (down payment) of the Holy Spirit Who guarantees our eternal inheritance in Jesus Christ – Ephesians1:13-14
  • Are baptized into the Body of Christ, by the Holy Spirit the moment we believe – 1 Corinthians 12:13
  • Are sealed with the Holy Spirit the moment we believe – Ephesians1:13
  • Are complete in Christ – Colossians 2:9,10
  • Are called out of darkness into Christ’s Marvelous Light – 1 Peter 2:9
https://expreacherman.com/36-amazing-things/
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Expreacherman saved from the bleakness of Lordship Salvation, such a wonderful Grace based non Calvinist ( :) :D) website.
 
HeIsHere said:
Expreacherman saved from the bleakness of Lordship Salvation, such a wonderful Grace based non Calvinist ( :):D) website.
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from biblical theology to antinomianism. nothing to celebrate. its a sad thing indeed. let me look at this website
 
Melach said:
from biblical theology to antinomianism. nothing to celebrate. its a sad thing indeed. let me look at this website
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Hmm, same response I received by a Calvinist about five years ago on CC about this website, exact same accusation.

I always am intrigued by stereotypical responses....."antinomianism" is big on the list of words used frequently.
 
HeIsHere said:
Hmm, same response I received by a Calvinist about five years ago on CC about this website, exact same accusation.

I always am intrigued by stereotypical responses....."antinomianism" is big on the list of words used frequently.
Click to expand...
i just dont see whats the issue with Lordship salvation? Jesus is Lord correct? so if you claim someone is your lord, and never do anything he says, is he your lord really? or do you deny him with your works as st.paul writes?

lordship salvation does not teach sinless perfectionism thats another heresy.

the golden middle road is between antinomianism and sinless perfection.

saved by grace, and those whom God saves will produce fruit, some tenfold some hundredfold etc. very simple and biblical. i think we should agree on it friend.
 
Kroogz said:
Gal 5:12
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
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Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”?

Their condemnation is just!
Romans 3:8
 
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Melach said:
i just dont see whats the issue with Lordship salvation? Jesus is Lord correct? so if you claim someone is your lord, and never do anything he says, is he your lord really? or do you deny him with your works as st.paul writes?

lordship salvation does not teach sinless perfectionism thats another heresy.

the golden middle road is between antinomianism and sinless perfection.

saved by grace, and those whom God saves will produce fruit, some tenfold some hundredfold etc. very simple and biblical. i think we should agree on it friend.
Click to expand...
One thing missing......His Cross and His work For the believer.

Lordship salvation is forever creature focused. The creatures life and what that creature does or doesn't do.

Salvation by the SAVIOR Is forever Creator focused. His life, death and resurrection FOR the creature.
 
Melach said:
i just dont see whats the issue with Lordship salvation? Jesus is Lord correct? so if you claim someone is your lord, and never do anything he says, is he your lord really? or do you deny him with your works as st.paul writes?

lordship salvation does not teach sinless perfectionism thats another heresy.

the golden middle road is between antinomianism and sinless perfection.

saved by grace, and those whom God saves will produce fruit, some tenfold some hundredfold etc. very simple and biblical. i think we should agree on it friend.
Click to expand...

There is no middle road.
Under grace or under the law.
 
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