Justification in Romans

[Believer08]

i just dont see whats the issue with Lordship salvation? Jesus is Lord correct? so if you claim someone is your lord, and never do anything he says, is he your lord really? or do you deny him with your works as st.paul writes?

lordship salvation does not teach sinless perfectionism thats another heresy.

the golden middle road is between antinomianism and sinless perfection.

saved by grace, and those whom God saves will produce fruit, some tenfold some hundredfold etc. very simple and biblical. i think we should agree on it friend.

I’ve never even heard of Lordship salvation until a few years ago. To me, it’s just another man made phrase to get out of obeying Jesus…as they think more than likely that it’s a burden…or they think it’s relying on oneself…they equate obedience with earning or working to heaven….Jesus Himself said why call me Lord and do not the things I say? Luke 6:46.

I do not advocate sinless perfectionism at all, but I also don’t advocate continuing in sin either (Rom. 6:1). What I advocate for is someone who is making their life about Jesus and not about themselves. That doesn’t mean we won’t make mistakes every now and then or sin…and it’s not because we were not following Jesus…it simply means we need Jesus every day in the midst of our failures…as we cannot live sinlessly perfect.

 

[HeIsHere]

One thing missing......His Cross and His work For the believer.

Lordship salvation is forever creature focused. The creatures life and what that creature does or doesn't do.

Salvation by the SAVIOR Is forever Creator focused. His life, death and resurrection FOR the creature.

Agree "under grace" is Jesus focused.
Titus 2:11-12
training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age,

 

[Kroogz]

Agree "under grace" is Jesus focused.
Titus 2:11-12
training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age,

I agree. COMPLETELY. Grace humbles.

Working for or maintaining~~~makes us proud.

But....One cannot truly renounce ungodliness, worldly passions and live controlled, upright and Godly lives UNTIL Grace is figured out.

One is not under Grace if one thinks they can lose salvation or have to maintain it.....All they have is the "good" side of their flesh.

 

[Kroogz]

.Jesus Himself said why call me Lord and do not the things I say? Luke 6:46.

Jesus Is not Lord to one who thinks salvation can be lost.

Never perish. No condemnation. Sealed. Imperishable. You have eternal life......That is what my Lord tells me.

 

[HeIsHere]

Jesus Is not Lord to one who thinks salvation can be lost.

Wow, wow!!
I am at a loss for words.
Years back, I had long ongoing dialogue with a so called "street preacher" definitely of the Lordship Salvation/Losable Salvation school..

I just wished I knew this then, although I doubt it would have made a difference, these people have a wall of defenses, sadly I might add.

 

[donnyscot]

Doesn’t good works naturally flow from a regenerated heart ?

 

[Believer08]

Doesn’t good works naturally flow from a regenerated heart ?

I don’t know, because I’m sure there are nonbelievers who do a lot of good works, but we wouldn’t say they were regenerated/saved.

 

[donnyscot]

I asked the question as I can’t see anything good in myself as the more Christ shines his light in my heart the more dirt I see,

It’s like when you open the blinds after you’ve cleaned your house then you realise there’s more cleaning to be done

I’ve often been told that good works flows after we’re saved but I fail to see it in myself

 

[Jeremiah33v3]

Doesn’t good works naturally flow from a regenerated heart ?

1 Corinthians 3:11-15

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Salvation is FATIH ALONE NO WORKS.

Works can earn rewards, but they CANNOT gain you salvation or keep you in salvation.


Titus 3:5-7

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Either you are saved or you are not? Want to get saved it is FAITH ALONE in the following.

Romans 10:9-10

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Salvation is faith alone NO WORKS.



Romans 4:4-5

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[donnyscot]

I don’t disagree with you ,
But u need to understand that repentance is a grace FROM God
He Wills us to repent
And repentance is 100% involved in being born again,

Repentance has absolutely nothing to do with any works

 

[Jeremiah33v3]

I don’t disagree with you ,
But u need to understand that repentance is a grace FROM God
He Wills us to repent
And repentance is 100% involved in being born again,

Repentance has absolutely nothing to do with any works

Romans 11:29

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Faith is a gift of God. and faith is GIVEN by hearing the word of God.

Romans 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[donnyscot]

1 Corinthians 3:11-15



Salvation is FATIH ALONE NO WORKS.

Works can earn rewards, but they CANNOT gain you salvation or keep you in salvation.


Titus 3:5-7


Either you are saved or you are not? Want to get saved it is FAITH ALONE in the following.

Romans 10:9-10


Salvation is faith alone NO WORKS.



Romans 4:4-5

Romans 11/29
It means that God won't change His mind about what he has called you to do. If God has called you, that calling is still there, whether or not you have obeyed. And if God gave you a gift, that gift is still there! Whatever God has called you to do, He has also gifted you to do it.

 

[donnyscot]

Y

Romans 11:29


Ephesians 2:8-9


Faith is a gift of God. and faith is GIVEN by hearing the word of God.

Romans 10:17

Your not understanding the verse you continue to quote
Romans 11 v 29

 

[Jeremiah33v3]

Romans 11/29
It means that God won't change His mind about what he has called you to do. If God has called you, that calling is still there, whether or not you have obeyed. And if God gave you a gift, that gift is still there! Whatever God has called you to do, He has also gifted you to do it.

Gifts are without repentance, and God calls FAITH a Gift, and Salvation is faith alone.

Isn't it beautiful
Nothing you need to do, all you need to do is trust in Jesus that He did it all for you and He imputed His righteousness onto you.

 

[donnyscot]

When did that imputation occur?
At what exact point ?

 

[Jeremiah33v3]

When did that imputation occur?
At what exact point ?

The moment you Confess with your mouth and believe in your heart.

Romans 10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Did you know SHALT is indicative tense? This is a tense that exist in "the Greek and hebrew" but not in english!

But fear not, God gave us it in the KJV!
The indicative tense says IN THE PRESENT MOMENT FACT!

So, if you right now confess that Jesus is THE LORD.
And if you right now believe in your heart the God raised Him from the dead...
YOU WILL BE SAVED RIGHT NOW!!!!!

Are you afraid that you don't believe enough? DO NOT WORRY! I have a prayer for you, it worked for me, it worked for this man, and it will work for you too!

There was a man who had a son who was devil possessed.... And he asked Jesus to cast out the devil... And well... I'll just let God tell you the rest of the story.
Mark 9:23-24

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

You see that? The man prayed for faith and it was GIVEN! Because faith is a gift from God.

So if you have issues believing that God raised from the grave or ANYTHING... Pray that prayer

 

[PaulThomson]

If it doesnt mean eternal is our eternal life not eternal then? What about eternal damnation?

Correct. It doesn't mean eternal, and neither aeonous life nor aeonous damnation mean eternal life or eternal damnation.

aiOn means an age whose end is undetermined. Aeonous life is a life whose end is undetermined, unknown, unspecified. Aeonous damnation is a damnation whose end is undetermined, unknown, unspecified. We have aeonous life because it is a kind of life that can last for as long as we are trusting in Jesus and God, and there is no predetermination of when that might be. And aeonous damnation is damnation that can last for as long as we are refusing to trust in Jesus and God, and there is no predetermination of when that might stop.

Instead of worrying about whether we can lose our salvation, how about living aeonous life now by trusting Jesus and God, and how about learning how to recover aeonous life when we fall from grace, by putting our trust back upon Jesus and God. That way we would learn to experience and appreciate the gracious mercy of God, and we would see no need to stress out about whether we can lose our salvation, because if we do, we can be reconciled again through the Lord Jesus Christ and putting our faith back upon Him.

 

[PaulThomson]

Strong's Lexicon
aiónios: Eternal, everlasting, forever

https://biblehub.com/greek/166.htm

And we all know that Mr Strong was a first century Christian who understood the New Testament writings as a native KoinE Greek speaker, so he must know what the words meant. :irony:

 

[PaulThomson]

Seems like you are taking a different position on eternal security of the believer.

It also should be noted that the phrase “eternal life” in Greek is aionios zoe, literally: “age life”—referring to the quality or calibre of life that comes from relationship with God in the immediate present.
Link

You do not need to trust the link, research it for yourself.
Saved is saved.

I see the debate between endless security and potential apostasy as a non-event. It does not matter to me which is true. i would not stop worshipping and serving God if either one were not true. My worship and service of God is because of His character demonstrated by Jesus Christ, not because I needed a promise of endless security before i would serve Him. Nor because I needed the threat if endless torment to do so.

Aeonous life is enjoying all of the things in the present that Jesus was given and gave to us, so that we would know God and Jesus. whom God sent. (John 17:3) This can be done whether one believes in OSAS or not. Aeonous life is liveable now, whether we believe in OSAS or not.

 

[GWH]

There are temporal benefits to eternal life, we are saved from sin, (not perishing).

I think sometimes we forget about the here and now blessings.

I agree that we should pray for benefits to come on earth, and to the extent that people are godly earthly life can be rather heavenly, but because everyone dies, "not perish" must mean not be destroyed after Judgment but instead inherit eternal life/heavenly existence.