A misconception of obedience
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Confidence does not make you correct on this issue or any other.
The promises of Jesus is not the issue, it is your unsubstantiated faith in your confidence that is in question.
"Where false assurance exist true assurance cannot."
You may personally assert that you are saved (which is fine) but you cannot demonstrate in anyway that this is true.
None of us can.
The promises of Jesus is not the issue, it is your unsubstantiated faith in your confidence that is in question.
"Where false assurance exist true assurance cannot."
You may personally assert that you are saved (which is fine) but you cannot demonstrate in anyway that this is true.
None of us can.
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Please give the post #s. In #128 I find Lamar saying: "I suspect those in Matthew 7:21-23 also "knew" that they had eternal life.
John knew his audience, he also knew that many who would hear these words would not have eternal life.
May know is a far cry from knowing. So what is your point?"
And in #137 I see: "A fair question. For the sake of expedience than principle. I will bow my unworthy head and beg the blood of Jesus on the day of Judgement. Like we all should."
And then in #164 you say: "A couple of posts that Lamar made seem to say that one cannot be assured of their salvation. I am confident in the promises made by Jesus."
It seems to me you are splitting hairs, because having confidence or assurance is NOT knowing with absolute certainty or walking by sight/proof (2CR 5:7, 1CR 13:12).
(Peace, out :^)
John knew his audience, he also knew that many who would hear these words would not have eternal life.
May know is a far cry from knowing. So what is your point?"
And in #137 I see: "A fair question. For the sake of expedience than principle. I will bow my unworthy head and beg the blood of Jesus on the day of Judgement. Like we all should."
And then in #164 you say: "A couple of posts that Lamar made seem to say that one cannot be assured of their salvation. I am confident in the promises made by Jesus."
It seems to me you are splitting hairs, because having confidence or assurance is NOT knowing with absolute certainty or walking by sight/proof (2CR 5:7, 1CR 13:12).
(Peace, out :^)
While I cannot provide an external proof in the way one might prove a scientific fact, that does not mean assurance is false or meaningless. The fruits of faith, the inner witness of the Spirit, and the consistency of God’s promises provide a foundation for true assurance. Just because something cannot be demonstrated to satisfy every skeptic does not mean it lacks reality or significance. However, I am one of those “old folks’ that have come to believe the Bible is fairly accurate.
Take for instance the word “Know” in 1John 5:13. I double checked the underlying Greek from which that word is translated from.
The Greek word translated as “know” in 1 John 5:13 is εἰδῆτε (eidēte), which is a form of the verb οἶδα (oida).
Meaning and Significance of οἶδα (oida):
1. Primary Meaning:
• The verb οἶδα (oida) primarily means “to know with certainty, to perceive, to understand fully.”
• Unlike γινώσκω (ginōskō), which often refers to knowledge gained through experience or learning, οἶδα (oida) conveys an intuitive, absolute, and settled knowledge—something that is fully grasped and understood.
2. Implication in 1 John 5:13:
• John is saying that believers can have definite, settled knowledge of their eternal life, not mere hope or speculation.
• The use of οἶδα (oida) emphasizes certainty and assurance, reinforcing the idea that salvation is something that can be confidently known rather than doubted.
Expanded Translation:
“I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may absolutely know (with full certainty) that you have eternal life.”
This verse strongly supports the idea that a believer can have absolute confidence in their salvation, as John uses a Greek term that implies firm and assured knowledge rather than a mere assumption or wishful thinking.
Take for instance the word “Know” in 1John 5:13. I double checked the underlying Greek from which that word is translated from.
The Greek word translated as “know” in 1 John 5:13 is εἰδῆτε (eidēte), which is a form of the verb οἶδα (oida).
Meaning and Significance of οἶδα (oida):
1. Primary Meaning:
• The verb οἶδα (oida) primarily means “to know with certainty, to perceive, to understand fully.”
• Unlike γινώσκω (ginōskō), which often refers to knowledge gained through experience or learning, οἶδα (oida) conveys an intuitive, absolute, and settled knowledge—something that is fully grasped and understood.
2. Implication in 1 John 5:13:
• John is saying that believers can have definite, settled knowledge of their eternal life, not mere hope or speculation.
• The use of οἶδα (oida) emphasizes certainty and assurance, reinforcing the idea that salvation is something that can be confidently known rather than doubted.
Expanded Translation:
“I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may absolutely know (with full certainty) that you have eternal life.”
This verse strongly supports the idea that a believer can have absolute confidence in their salvation, as John uses a Greek term that implies firm and assured knowledge rather than a mere assumption or wishful thinking.
The wording of 1 John 5:13 supports your conclusion. In it, John says he wrote what he wrote in order that (i.e., for the very purpose that) saved people can process what He said and then come to the conclusion that they curently possess eternal life. So, if a saved person is unsure they possess eternal life, they need to re-review the things John said and determine if those things apply to them.
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Reminds me of the song in Sound of Music that has the line that goes something like "I have confidence in confidence I have".
But that's not how any of this works. Even though believing in Jesus is required for salvation, believing does not save anyone. God saves people. He does it by Himself with help from no one. After a person is saved, he can read 1 Corintians 1:21 and rightly conclude that it does in fact please God to save from His wrath the people who put their trust in His Son. Personally, this is not what gives me confidence that I am saved. What gives me confidence that I am saved is that He lives in my heart and as a result I have come to know Him intimately and personally.
But that's not how any of this works. Even though believing in Jesus is required for salvation, believing does not save anyone. God saves people. He does it by Himself with help from no one. After a person is saved, he can read 1 Corintians 1:21 and rightly conclude that it does in fact please God to save from His wrath the people who put their trust in His Son. Personally, this is not what gives me confidence that I am saved. What gives me confidence that I am saved is that He lives in my heart and as a result I have come to know Him intimately and personally.
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The Bible has many verses concerning assurance of salvation. Every one of them includes the premise that the determination of one's salvation can only be made by the individual and not by other people. Here is one example...
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. (2 Co 13:5)
The verse you are quoting is about our personal introspection, the honest as possible observation of our thoughts.
This effort, though noble is not a guarantee of salvation and without that guarantee personal assurance is not possible.
Jeremiah 17:9
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?"
In other words, no one is so sincere that they cannot fool themselves.
NO ONE.
This effort, though noble is not a guarantee of salvation and without that guarantee personal assurance is not possible.
Jeremiah 17:9
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?"
In other words, no one is so sincere that they cannot fool themselves.
NO ONE.
We might differ on what needs to be obeyed and the reasons, but not the importance. In the end, we all believe obedience is essential. The issue becomes when we end up on not agreeing on what we mean by obedience. I’m not advocating obedience is the means and the only means of salvation without the need of grace, mercy, faith and love. When lost sinners obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered to them (Rom. 6:17)..they expressed their faith and desire to be saved by God’s grace..humbly throwing themselves on His mercy. The doctrine that was delivered unto them was not something they earned or could boast about. It is of God. The gospel is of God (2 Thess. 2:14; Rom. 1:16). Thus, any form of obedience from a heart of faith that is motivated, driven, and fueled by the gospel call of salvation (Acts 2:39) cannot possibly be one as earning or boasting..and cannot be considered relying or trusting in self. The only boasting one can do is give glory to God (1 Cor. 1:13; 2 Cor. 10:17) for what all He did in providing the means of salvation. Not self. The only boasting/rejoicing one can do once they get saved is with the testimony of their conscience with godly sincerity…by the grace of God (2 Cor. 1:12). I’m not advocating a kind or type of obedience that is boastful in ourselves (Titus 3:5) or our own righteousness (Rom. 10:3), or one that is legalistic or Phariseeish. I’m not advocating a follow the rule obedience with zero faith, zero love and not depending on grace and mercy when we fall short. I’m advocating one that is of faith in submitting to the righteousness of God (Rom. 10:3) through/by the power/authority of Christ Jesus our Lord (Mt. 28:18), who is the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him (Heb. 5:9).
— Believer08
— Believer08