Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Sep 29, 2024
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Then don't insult people simply because they disagree with you.

Check out post#226 my entry into this thread and your response post#228. No rebuttal to my argument, just a rude dismissal.

You then responded to a conversation I was having with posthuman with a derisive comment about me foregoing logic, yet once again, didn't bother to refute my argument. post#571

It was obvious after those two responses you weren't interested in a discussion with me as you had made up your mind my input was worthless.

I was having a very interesting discussion with PaulThomson when I asked what he thought the new birth was (post#763) when you responded with something that seemingly came from left field, as we were discussing the spiritual birth not physical birth. It seemed you thought the new birth was physical so I corrected your understanding in post#810.

Yet post#775 you called me a troll and a spiteful child without any evidence to back up your claim yet when asked to point out to whom I had been spiteful you doubled down with your malice. post#820, 823, 824 and 828.

Let others go back and read what was said, I welcome them to see what has been said over the last 3 or 4 pages.



Does yours?
You are delusional, even i haven't read all the comments on MY post because of so much trolling from yoursort. You KNOW you've posted far too many comments for ONE person to deal with, when you need a gang for protection.

The height of self delusion and hypocrisy, you need to really take a long hard look at yourself.
 
Sep 29, 2024
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Going to play a couple of games of chess before sleeping however, glad i've cleared the air some. It's a genie which won't go back in the bottle, it would be wise to give my posts a miss genez and sawdust, i can PROMISE i won't seek your company.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
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Going to play a couple of games of chess before sleeping however, glad i've cleared the air some. It's a genie which won't go back in the bottle, it would be wise to give my posts a miss genez and sawdust, i can PROMISE i won't seek your company.
I still say get a safe room set up. All the karens and babes can go there and be safe.
 
Sep 29, 2024
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I still say get a safe room set up. All the karens and babes can go there and be safe.
Personally haven't seen issues with Karens and babes, it's those who seem to value their interpretation of God's word over what's said in the Bible, who give me pause.

Ah well, different strokes for different folks. One more game of chess then i'll sleep, i hope.
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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What has that got to do with spiritual birth? You have to be born from above to be spiritually alive. It's a new birth, distinct from our physical birth and biological life.

John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Where does scripture say you have to be born from above to be spiritually alive? I know John 3 says you have to be born from above to see the kingdom of God and enter it.

And dead can mean unresponsive, rather than completely lifeless. A sound sleeper may be dead to the world, but not physically dead.

I can be dead to someone's whining complaints, but still hear them whining and complaining.
 
Oct 12, 2017
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Heh! You know they picked you over me, i wasn't fake enough. Think your Mum or something like it comes next. Seriously just play somewhere else, on your own post would make sense.

My post was intended for rational, pleasant discussion etc, you seek to impose your views on others and have caused real unpleasantness at times within it. Which is why i think you could be young/immature, recommend people read back over at least a few pages of the comments from about 25% in, you'll see what i'm saying.
Go away.... "Please."

Onto Ignore.
There is nothing in you to reach.

Maybe later.

Nice to have met you.
 
Oct 12, 2017
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Well, your reply was pointless, helpless and therefore worthless, so I guess I will remain stuck with what I believe God has taught me and is still teaching me as of today. Beware of viewing RBT as the pope!
RBT would do the same...
 

sawdust

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Feb 12, 2024
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Where does scripture say you have to be born from above to be spiritually alive? I know John 3 says you have to be born from above to see the kingdom of God and enter it.

And dead can mean unresponsive, rather than completely lifeless. A sound sleeper may be dead to the world, but not physically dead.

I can be dead to someone's whining complaints, but still hear them whining and complaining.
The verse I quoted says you have to be born of the Spirit and it is saying He (the Holy Spirit) gives birth to spirit. Why would you need to have a spirit born in you if you already have one? We do not get our human spirit from our parents (flesh) but from God.

Agreed, dead can mean unresponsive, but does it mean that when speaking of the Spirit giving birth to spirit? The verse is comparing physical birth and spiritual birth.

You do not need to be born from above to be physically alive in this world. You can think (function of the soul) and act (function of the body) without the new birth.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Well, your reply was pointless, helpless and therefore worthless, so I guess I will remain stuck with what I believe God has taught me and is still teaching me as of today. Beware of viewing RBT as the pope!
Why the pope? Can he really teach the Bible?
 
Oct 19, 2024
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Then don't insult people simply because they disagree with you.

Check out post#226 my entry into this thread and your response post#228. No rebuttal to my argument, just a rude dismissal.

You then responded to a conversation I was having with posthuman with a derisive comment about me foregoing logic, yet once again, didn't bother to refute my argument. post#571

It was obvious after those two responses you weren't interested in a discussion with me as you had made up your mind my input was worthless.

I was having a very interesting discussion with PaulThomson when I asked what he thought the new birth was (post#763) when you responded with something that seemingly came from left field, as we were discussing the spiritual birth not physical birth. It seemed you thought the new birth was physical so I corrected your understanding in post#810.

Yet post#775 you called me a troll and a spiteful child without any evidence to back up your claim yet when asked to point out to whom I had been spiteful you doubled down with your malice. post#820, 823, 824 and 828.

Let others go back and read what was said, I welcome them to see what has been said over the last 3 or 4 pages.



Does yours?
#226 - Freedom is never unfettered or unrestricted. It is bound by the character/nature of the one who is willing. God desires all men to be saved but His nature is one of perfect integrity and therefore will not compromise with His own word on the matter in that, He will save believers, He will not save unbelievers even though He desires they choose life.

It's not only not perfect, it is not even close. There can be no freedom without authority. Lack of authority results in chaos, not freedom.

#228 - Sorry but your comment reads like so many wishful soundbites to me, there's nothing there i agree with.

GWH - If I may serve in the capacity of a witness (per MT 18:16), IMO #228 does seem to be a rather "rude dismissal".

By way of constructive criticism, IMO a better reply might have said something like "It is true that volition regarding salvation is limited to the enabling by God of faith/will that is called seeking in MT 7:7, which may be resisted or rejected by choosing not to seek. Thus, although God desires all souls to be saved, many and perhaps most folks may choose their own way rather than God's Way.

Regarding the reference to not being perfect and lack of authority, I do not understand your point, so please clarify. Thanks."
 
Oct 19, 2024
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Why the pope? Can he really teach the Bible?
Because I noticed a tendency of RBT to talk as though he was the only person who knew Greek or the right interpretation of GW
and of some Berachah folks to idolize him.
 

sawdust

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2024
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Regarding the reference to not being perfect and lack of authority, I do not understand your point, so please clarify. Thanks."
She said her definition wasn't perfect. I maintain it is not even close.

I said freedom cannot exist apart from authority. Without authority you have chaos, not freedom.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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The verse I quoted says you have to be born of the Spirit and it is saying He (the Holy Spirit) gives birth to spirit. Why would you need to have a spirit born in you if you already have one? We do not get our human spirit from our parents (flesh) but from God.

Agreed, dead can mean unresponsive, but does it mean that when speaking of the Spirit giving birth to spirit? The verse is comparing physical birth and spiritual birth.

You do not need to be born from above to be physically alive in this world. You can think (function of the soul) and act (function of the body) without the new birth.
These are my intuitions.

I would suggest that it is the spirit of a man that gives him life, and in the first creation the life/spirit is in the body, in the blood; that is, it enlivens the blood which enlivens the body. I would suggest that that blood-enlivening spirit is innocent and clean at birth, but our departing from innocence later in life muddies/confuses/pollutes/corrupts the blood-enlivening spirit with a degree of bias toward self-reliance rather than faith toward God. In the new birth God puts a new pure and incorruptible spirit into our soul, which enlivens our mind with revelation truth, and enables us to subdue the spirit in our blood, if we so choose.

We need that new incorruptible spirit because the original blood-enlivening spirit is weaken and handicapped by our flesh, so that we often cannot do the good we want to do. That's why we need a new spirit even though we already have one. Yes, we get both spirits from God. If we do not have an upgraded spirit, when our original spirit leaves our blood, we die physically and our soul goes with it to hades. to await judgment. However, of we have an upgraded spirit as well, then when our upgraded spirit leaves our body, our soul goes with it into God's presence.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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She said her definition wasn't perfect. I maintain it is not even close.

I said freedom cannot exist apart from authority. Without authority you have chaos, not freedom.
Not sure why anyone would dispute the need for sufficient authority or law enforcement to preclude crime and chaos.

Not sure what definition was not even close to perfect, so please feel free to share either hers or yours or both,
if you would like me to opine about that point.
 
Sep 29, 2024
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Go away.... "Please."

Onto Ignore.
There is nothing in you to reach.

Maybe later.

Nice to have met you.
It appears the term irony and you aren't even on nodding terms, let acquaintances. Shouldn't it be you who goes away dear? You're the unwelcome troll infesting MY post.

EDIT: That's one glove taken off, don't think either of us would like it if i took off the other.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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By way of constructive criticism, IMO a better reply might have said something like "It is true that volition regarding salvation is limited to the enabling by God of faith/will that is called seeking in MT 7:7, which may be resisted or rejected by choosing not to seek. Thus, although God desires all souls to be saved, many and perhaps most folks may choose their own way rather than God's Way.
Rather than hopping on the back of another? Maybe? Teach it yourself.
 
Jan 17, 2024
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Keep in mind.
God is light.
God is the Light of Life!

Jesus became separated from the Father and Holy Spirit when our sins were being poured on his body while hanging on the Cross.

That is why he he kept on screamed out.... "MY GOD! MY GOD! Why have you forsaken me?"

grace and peace!
Yup, and He knew that was going to happen. Thus take the cup away so He wouldn't have to endure the separation. As far as being tortured Jesus had to resist healing Himself so being worried about something He was in full control of doesn't make sense imo.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Because I noticed a tendency of RBT to talk as though he was the only person who knew Greek or the right interpretation of GW and of some Berachah folks to idolize him.
Not the only person who knew Greek and Hebrew.
He was only one of a few qualified to be able to.

While at Bible college, RB Thieme was recommended to me by a professor, Stan Ashby,.
He taught ancient languages at a Bible college.
Professor Ashby had been associated with Harvard during WWII.

I was praising some recorded messages I heard by Professor Ashby, and he kept telling me he got it from someone named Thieme.
At the time, I was not learning from RB Thieme.

And, if a pastor is doing an excellent job. His congregation should love him!
And, some must hate. It goes with the territory.

I used to work for a world renown Chef. I worked the front of the house. His kitchen and staff consisted of a few students of a Bible college down the street. Some of them began giving me flak after learning I chose to follow Thieme's teachings.

The chef and I were discussing the situation during a quiet time in the kitchen.
I explained how Thieme has the skill to extract from the Greek and Hebrew meanings that too many translations avoid, or water down.

I then gave him an example of something Thieme translated from the OT.

What did the chef do? (he had created the menu for the Queen of England for the bicentennial celebration in Boston)..
He walked over to a shelf in his kitchen and pulled down a book. It was his Luther translation in German. He read it...

Guess what... He looked up that passage I gave him and read it as translated by Luther into German.
After pondering what Luther wrote, he then told me.. "Your pastor is right."

And, he added from his own observation that those who do not like Thieme were jealous of him.
He said he saw the same thing go on in his profession. And, he had worked with the very best.

And, to my amazement and joy. Thieme was the only teacher my Jewish father would listen to with respect.
Same parent that wanted me deprogrammed after learning I chose Christ.

So much for that.

Some win....and.... some lose.
It's all according to how we choose.

grace and peace!