Finding unity: obedience

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Believer08

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Jan 27, 2025
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#21
Re "our good works bring glory to Him": Yes, because they are works God prepared for believers to do by way of obedience or cooperation." (EPH 2:10)
Great explanation. I’m going to have to remember that. Mt. 5:16 comes to mind.
 

Believer08

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Jan 27, 2025
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#24
@GWH, in wanting to further my understanding of that verse (Eph. 2:10), what good works did God prepare for Christians to do? Elsewhere, Paul talks about being zealous of good works and to maintain them (Titus 2:14, 3:8, 3:14).
 

GWH

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#26
@GWH, in wanting to further my understanding of that verse (Eph. 2:10), what good works did God prepare for Christians to do? Elsewhere, Paul talks about being zealous of good works and to maintain them (Titus 2:14, 3:8, 3:14).
Oh gosh, every action that manifests the fruit of the HS in GL 5:22-23 and spiritual gifts in RM 12:4-21 for starters.
 

Believer08

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Jan 27, 2025
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#27
Oh gosh, every action that manifests the fruit of the HS in GL 5:22-23 and spiritual gifts in RM 12:4-21 for starters.
Thanks for your reply on that.
 

Soyeong

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Oct 11, 2023
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#28
Re "our good works bring glory to Him": Yes, because they are works God prepared for believers to do by way of obedience or cooperation." (EPH 2:10)
We are giving glory to God whenever we are doers of His character traits.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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#29
We are giving glory to God whenever we are doers of His character traits.
God's character traits are in us by the Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is...We don't do God's character traits; the Spirit produces them in us as we walk in Him.
 

Believer08

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Jan 27, 2025
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#30
God's character traits are in us by the Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is...We don't do God's character traits; the Spirit produces them in us as we walk in Him.
We are doing what God desires when we have the fruit of the Spirit to dwell in us.
 

Cameron143

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#31
We are doing what God desires when we have the fruit of the Spirit to dwell in us.
Sure. But we aren't doing God's character traits; we are walking in the Spirit. He is producing the results.
 

GWH

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#32
God's character traits are in us by the Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is...We don't do God's character traits; the Spirit produces them in us as we walk in Him.
Well, I prefer to say we manifest the fruit of the Spirit, but let's not quibble, because the NT is full of statements expressing GRFS in term of doing/behaving rather than believing.
 

Cameron143

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#33
Well, I prefer to say we manifest the fruit of the Spirit, but let's not quibble, because the NT is full of statements expressing GRFS in term of doing/behaving rather than believing.
If none is good but God, but goodness emanates from us, are we the source or is God?

It may seem a small thing in the eyes of many, but for those who truly are seeking God's glory, assigning credit accurately is of importance.
 

GWH

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#34
If none is good but God, but goodness emanates from us, are we the source or is God?

It may seem a small thing in the eyes of many, but for those who truly are seeking God's glory, assigning credit accurately is of importance.
Disciples of Jesus (or Believers) tend to love and help others, not by virtue of their own goodness, but because they are moved or motivated by the goodness of God/loving Spirit of the Lord (1JN 4:7-8). Humans can never become good enough to earn or merit salvation as a reward for right behavior. A person cannot be good by doing "good". Those who try to attain heaven by imitating Christ-like behavior without accepting Christ’s Lordship and atonement actually go in the opposite direction (GL 5:4), so we should cooperate with God’s Way.

5. The Bible says that God is love and true love comes from God (1JN 4:7-21, RM 5:5), so volitional creatures or souls can love or be good only by reflecting or cooperating with the Creator’s love/goodness. Although the Bible speaks of God hating Esau (ML 1:3) and other evil people (HS 9:15), Jesus’ teaching of love for enemies (MT 5:44) reveals that the good God loves all creatures including Satan but hates evil and their sinful choices.

It seems logical to assume that the all-loving and righteous God would create the best possible world or one in which the greatest percentage of persons may attain ultimate joy (1TM 2:3-4, 2PT 3:9). God may have created all possible kinds of worlds simultaneously: the world of dead matter, the world of living plants, the world of intelligent animals, and the world of morally accountable souls/humans. God’s world/way is best.

The cliche “might makes right” is true; it is because God is almighty that only He can determine what is right and good ultimately. There is no super-divine authority that determines God; God is free to be self-determined. The only basis humans have for evaluating whether God is just or good is understanding how God’s acts and judgments are consistent with the moral principles He has ordained for those created in His image (RM 3:22-26). God’s decision to be all-loving is rational, because God is pleased by doing good for creatures, but it is free because God could have chosen to anoint Satan to embody evil logic/lies rather than Jesus to manifest love and truth (JN 1:14, PHP 2:9-11), and this earthly existence would be hell (RV 19:11-13, 20:7-10 & 21:6-8).

If God were ever to change His mind, it would mean that God is tricky and that morality is ultimately arbitrary. Thus, ultimate reality would indeed be a farce (although we are unable to imagine an alternative moral reality in detail). This is why we should not take God's goodness and divine love for granted. Instead, we should be eternally grateful that God has decreed loving to be right and good, and He promises never to change (ML 3:6). Let us praise God in the spirit of Psalm 66:1: “Shout with joy to God, all the earth! Sing to the glory of his name; Offer him glory and praise!”
 

Believer08

Active member
Jan 27, 2025
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#35
Oh gosh, every action that manifests the fruit of the HS in GL 5:22-23 and spiritual gifts in RM 12:4-21 for starters.
Could atheists or some other person in another faith exhibit the qualities that are considered the fruit of the Spirit?
 

GWH

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#36
Could atheists or some other person in another faith exhibit the qualities that are considered the fruit of the Spirit?
Again, those who try to attain heaven by imitating Christ-like behavior without accepting Christ’s Lordship and atonement actually go in the opposite direction (GL 5:4). That would be akin to Satan appearing to be an angel of light (2CR 11:14)
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#37
I just wanted to say it brings my heart such joy seeing everyone in fellowship and unity and understanding. @Believer08 I appreciate you trying to bring unity and understanding in the body as well as you @GWH in your study thread and the other thread you made thank you both for doing the Lords work
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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#38
I just wanted to say it brings my heart such joy seeing everyone in fellowship and unity and understanding. @Believer08 I appreciate you trying to bring unity and understanding in the body as well as you @GWH in your study thread and the other thread you made thank you both for doing the Lords work
Ditto!
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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#39
That's right. When the churches I attended as a boy and teen taught salvation, there was no clarity. It was always obedience/works that God intended His children to obey and a description of His pure holiness MIXED with the Sacrifice of our Savior. They misapplied the majority of the Bible, which happens to be written to saved believers in the family of God, and make it all a variety of commands to be saved. The world/ worldly preachers cannot and will not understand the essential distinctions.

For instance, mothers bring life into the world, wonderful little babies. The babies don't go through labor to be born of the flesh when the water breaks, mothers do.
As the child grows and matures, there are family expectations and rules. Obedience to the rules doesn't assist mothers in the birth of the child. If the worldly pastors were consistent, they would take birth as a process to earn as they mow the lawn, wash dishes, get dressed, not poop their pants, and show up for school on time. The works salvationists turn John chapter 3 on it's head. They confuse what Jesus said, Ye must be born again. Jesus made it so simple, but the worldly pastors do as those teaching Pharisees and Sadducees did in that day.
Wonderfully expressed. Always enjoy your insights into Life and Grace!
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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#40
God’s way is the narrow way that leads to life and God has graciously taught how to walk in His way through His law, but many people don’t want to walk in it (Jeremiah 6:16-19). The people in the Bible wanted God to be gracious to them by teaching them to obey His law, but many people today want God to be gracious to them instead of teaching them to obey it, so they can’t come to terms with grace.
Either under law or under grace it is not possible to live in both.