Finding unity: obedience

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Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
997
138
43
#41
“Good” is the ultimate goal at which all things aim. For example, a square is a plane figure with four equal straight sides and four right angles and a plane figure is a good square to the degree that it is aimed at being in the likeness of a square. A square drawn freehand is not as good of a square as one drawn using a ruler and protractor. To say that God is good is not just to say that He is a doer of good works, but that all works are good to the degree that they are aimed at being in the likeness of His character and that all good works testify about His goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16) and why "sin" is missing the mark. The fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God’s character, so that is the way that the Spirit leads us to do good. The way to believe in God is by directing our lives towards being in God's likeness by being a doer of His character traits and it is by this faith alone that we attain the character traits of God.
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
997
138
43
#42
Either under law or under grace it is not possible to live in both.
That is true for the law of sin, but not the Law of God. A gift can be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari for an hour, where the gift intrinsically requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where doing that work contributes nothing towards earning the opportunity to drive it.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith alone.

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life (John 17:3), and which again is the gift of salvation by grace through faith.

In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, he was a righteous man, and he walked with God, so God was gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith.

In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while Paul denied that we can earn our salvation as the result of our works lest anyone should boast, being made to be a doer of good works in obedience to God's law is nevertheless a central part of God's gift of salvation.

In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works has absolutely nothing to do with trying to contribute anything towards earning our salvation, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is part of His gift of salvation. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus spent his ministry teaching by word and by example and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for being a doer of good works in obedience to God's law (Acts 21:20).
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
17,556
747
113
#43
I don’t think anyone would disagree with the importance of obedience. We all agree it is important. The issue that we seem to be having is why we need to obey. One group believes in obeying to be saved. The other group seems to believe obedience is because they are saved. I stated in a previously the following: “There is a sense in which obedience is proof of being saved. You shall know them by their fruits (Mt. 7:16, 20; 12:33), we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works (Eph. 2:10). Jesus's sacrifice is the remedy, the gospel is the remedy, and we accept the remedy by obedience. Like a doctor provides a remedy for a seriously deadly disease or poison - we have to follow the doctor's instructions and take the remedy as he prescribes if we want to be healed.”

For any on this forum who I have accused or misrepresented in what they believe, I humbly ask for your forgiveness. I think it’s important we try to reach an agreement and let go of any misrepresentations or accusations. We will never come to unity if we do not. Agreed?
since, if, we agree to disagree. I bet there will be a lot of learning in truth that frees us to just love. Which has overcome death for us to overcome it too in the same love and mercy given us all at that cross for us to be reconciled as forgiven 100% before any new life could ever get given us.
Thanks, love all is easy if we love all. yes even those that have done us wrong. God did that through Son to me at least Romans 2:1-4