Which works justify?

[Believer08]

@studier

 

[Johnjunior]

James 2:23-26 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

This is actually a great question. Faith simply means belief, the individuals spoken of by James believe GOD and it showed in their works.
Hebrews 11: 1 - 2
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

See you get a good report by simply believing what GOD said. This is Abraham's report (his works)
Hebrews 11: 8 - 10, 17 - 19
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

This is Rahab's account
Hebrews 11: 31
31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

 

[Cameron143]

What did Abraham and Rahab do to be said to be justified by works? Gal. 2:16 is referring to works of the law. Abraham and Rahab were not justified by those works. So what works does James say they did to be justified? They did something. What was it?

Their actions were the evidence of their faith. And their works were the works prepared for them...Ephesians 2:10.

Salvation hasn't changed from the beginning...it was always by grace through faith. Just because God didn't make salvation as plain in the OT, doesn't mean it wasn't the same. Just look in Genesis; it's all there:

Genesis 3...God promises a Savior
Genesis 3...God gives a covering
Genesis 4...men call on the name of the Lord
Genesis 6...Noah finds grace in the sight of the Lord
Genesis 12...Abraham believed God

It has always been there, just not highlighted until the NT.

So Abraham heard the word of God. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. He acts on his belief. Same as any saved person does.
Somehow the word of God came to Rahab. We are not told how. But she believed in the God of Israel and acted on that belief by helping the spies.

 

[Johnjunior]

What did Abraham and Rahab do to be said to be justified by works? Gal. 2:16 is referring to works of the law. Abraham and Rahab were not justified by those works. So what works does James say they did to be justified? They did something. What was it?

Jesus works justify. Our works may or may not evidence that God has justified us.

Well, that is incorrect. If Jesus works justified us then everyone would get saved but that is clearly not the case and confessing GOD with your lips is not enough. The devils believe and know who GOD is as seen in Mark 5: 1 - 13, as a matter of fact they actually begged GOD to go into the swine but they are evil and everyone one those devils going into the lake of fire. You need to have works. Found out what's good and do it, that is how you demonstrate your faith. So let's see what's good then.
Matthew 19: 16 - 17
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Ecclesiastes 12: 13 - 14
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 

[Believer08]

Well, that is incorrect

It is not incorrect. James clearly says Abraham and Rahab were justified by works. What works were they justified by? James also said they did something to which he says how they were justified. And he mentions it in the text. Tell me what it was.

 

[Johnjunior]

It is not incorrect. James clearly says Abraham and Rahab were justified by works. What works were they justified by? James also said they did something to which he says how they were justified. And he mentions it in the text. Tell me what it was.

My bad mate that comment was directed towards Cameron143.

Works that show faith will save you. However faith comes by hearing, you need to hear the word of God and believe GOD. Perfect example:
Jonah 3: 1 - 2, 4 - 5, 10
1 And the word of the Lord came unto Jonah the second time, saying,

2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.

4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.

10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

What GOD see you doing what is right then that is your works. Hebrews 11 outlines the report of all those who had faith.

 

[Believer08]

My bad mate that comment was directed towards Cameron143.

Works that show faith will save you. However faith comes by hearing, you need to hear the word of God and believe GOD. Perfect example:
Jonah 3: 1 - 2, 4 - 5, 10
1 And the word of the Lord came unto Jonah the second time, saying,

2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.

4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.

10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

What GOD see you doing what is right then that is your works. Hebrews 11 outlines the report of all those who had faith.

It’s all good. Have a blessed weekend.

 

[Believer08]

Well, that is incorrect. If Jesus works justified us then everyone would get saved but that is clearly not the case and confessing GOD with your lips is not enough. The devils believe and know who GOD is as seen in Mark 5: 1 - 13, as a matter of fact they actually begged GOD to go into the swine but they are evil and everyone one those devils going into the lake of fire. You need to have works. Found out what's good and do it, that is how you demonstrate your faith. So let's see what's good then.
Matthew 19: 16 - 17
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Ecclesiastes 12: 13 - 14
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

After re-reeading your post, I pretty much agree with what you wrote

 

[Believer08]

Their actions were the evidence of their faith. And their works were the works prepared for them...Ephesians 2:10.

Salvation hasn't changed from the beginning...it was always by grace through faith. Just because God didn't make salvation as plain in the OT, doesn't mean it wasn't the same. Just look in Genesis; it's all there:

Genesis 3...God promises a Savior
Genesis 3...God gives a covering
Genesis 4...men call on the name of the Lord
Genesis 6...Noah finds grace in the sight of the Lord
Genesis 12...Abraham believed God

It has always been there, just not highlighted until the NT.

So Abraham heard the word of God. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. He acts on his belief. Same as any saved person does.
Somehow the word of God came to Rahab. We are not told how. But she believed in the God of Israel and acted on that belief by helping the spies.

What works does James say Abraham and Rahab did in chapter 2? It’s not that difficult. They both did something by faith which said to be justified by works. What works was it?

 

[Johnjunior]

After re-reeading your post, I pretty much agree with what you wrote

All glory goes to Jesus, that's why I use scriptures to point out what Jesus is telling us. Since we have never seen him all we got is his word so might as well read. Enjoy the weekend mate.

 

[Cameron143]

Well, that is incorrect. If Jesus works justified us then everyone would get saved but that is clearly not the case and confessing GOD with your lips is not enough. The devils believe and know who GOD is as seen in Mark 5: 1 - 13, as a matter of fact they actually begged GOD to go into the swine but they are evil and everyone one those devils going into the lake of fire. You need to have works. Found out what's good and do it, that is how you demonstrate your faith. So let's see what's good then.
Matthew 19: 16 - 17
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Ecclesiastes 12: 13 - 14
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Only if you believe Jesus works are applied to everyone. But that's not so. His works only apply to those who believe.

 

[Cameron143]

It is not incorrect. James clearly says Abraham and Rahab were justified by works. What works were they justified by? James also said they did something to which he says how they were justified. And he mentions it in the text. Tell me what it was.

They were justified by God because Jesus paid for their sins. His work is what allows them to be justified.
When they believed God and placed their faith in Him, His righteousness was accounted or imputed to them.

 

[Johnjunior]

Only if you believe Jesus works are applied to everyone. But that's not so. His works only apply to those who believe.

Well faith means belief and faith without works is dead, so, we all need to work for salvation. One of the key components of our work is to be baptized in the name of Jesus because we need the blood of Jesus but once we get baptized we need to stay under the blood. Only way to do is to do is to do what Jesus commanded us which would be keeping his commandments.

 

[Believer08]

They were justified by God because Jesus paid for their sins. His work is what allows them to be justified.
When they believed God and placed their faith in Him, His righteousness was accounted or imputed to them.

You are refusing to address my questions in James 2!!!!

 

[Believer08]

They were justified by God because Jesus paid for their sins. His work is what allows them to be justified.
When they believed God and placed their faith in Him, His righteousness was accounted or imputed to them.

Since you refuse to answer, I will help you out…

Was Abraham justified by works when he offered Isaac? Yes or no?

Was Rahab justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? Yes or no?

What kind of works would those be that justified them?

 

[Cameron143]

What works does James say Abraham and Rahab did in chapter 2? It’s not that difficult. They both did something by faith which said to be justified by works. What works was it?

The key phrase is...wait for it...BY FAITH. Any work by faith is done by someone exercising faith. Thus, they are already saved.

 

[Cameron143]

Well faith means belief and faith without works is dead, so, we all need to work for salvation. One of the key components of our work is to be baptized in the name of Jesus because we need the blood of Jesus but once we get baptized we need to stay under the blood. Only way to do is to do is to do what Jesus commanded us which would be keeping his commandments.

You don't get it. Someone doing something by faith already believes. They are already saved.

 

[Believer08]

The key phrase is...wait for it...BY FAITH. Any work by faith is done by someone exercising faith. Thus, they are already saved.

So Abraham and Rahab were already saved without being justified according to James?

 

[Believer08]

You don't get it. Someone doing something by faith already believes. They are already saved.

They had a faith that believed God, but how do we know that according to James? How did they get justified according to James?

 

[Cameron143]

So Abraham and Rahab was already saved without being justified?

If they were saved they were justified. The works they did evidenced this.