The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”

  • Thread starter Thread starter Believer08
  • Start date Start date
  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
sevoldoG said:
Thanks to Adam we are all under sin and God saves whom he will.
Click to expand...
We are all under sin because we ourselves have sinned. Adam didn’t cause me to sin and he didn’t cause anyone else to sin, as sin is a choice that one makes to transgress God’s law (1 Jn. 3:4). God saves those who obey Him (Heb. 5:9; Mt. 7:21). God has not randomly selected before the beginning of time that Person A will have no choice and go to hell, but Person B has no choice and will go to heaven. That would make Him a respecter of persons and show partiality, which He is not (Acts 10:34; Rom. 2:11). Salvation is for all ethnicities, whether Jew or Gentile (Rom. 1:16).
 
TrustandObey said:
Deep in the core of OSAS is the need to ignore the existence of apostasy. Apostasy simply cannot abide in their world.

They simply will not accept the notion that a person being able to commit such a sin.
Click to expand...

I wasn't planning to repond, as this statement holds some truth. However, I'd like to share my thougts, given my experience with numerous conversations on this topic. I strongly disagree with the idea that a genuine believer cannot commit apostasy.

Interestingly, some proponentsm of OSAS emphasize the importance of self-examination, encouraging believers to verify thier faith. While they may not acknowledge the possibility of apostasy, this emphasis on self-examination can indirectly address the apostasy issue.

I ask any OSAS to please correct me if i am wrong.
 
Karlon said:
&, what's the sense in being saved if you believe you can lose your salvation? do you get saved the 2nd time, 3rd time or the 589th time? too, why would God create & teach salvation without abounding to us a way to know for sure that you have eternal salvation? so sad that some people believe you can lose salvation, doesn't make any sense at all
Click to expand...

Replace "lose" with "repudiate" and see if HB 6:4-6 makes sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Believer08
GWH said:
If we make such a big deal about salvation being through faith, it is not logically consistent to then say rewards are via works.

In the Parable of the Talents, God did not accept the worthless servant as born again.

In reality, saints were saved, they are being saved, and they will be saved if they keep on believing.

Yes, every Christian's desire should be that at the end of their lives they will be able to say the same as Paul:
that they persevered to the end of the race.

Yes, we are different members of Christ's body and should not be spiritually competitive or judgmental,
as though we have a superior placement in God's kingdom.
Click to expand...
It may not be logical to you, but it is scriptural.
 
wwjdmichael101 said:
I wasn't planning to repond, as this statement holds some truth. However, I'd like to share my thougts, given my experience with numerous conversations on this topic. I strongly disagree with the idea that a genuine believer cannot commit apostasy.

Interestingly, some proponentsm of OSAS emphasize the importance of self-examination, encouraging believers to verify thier faith. While they may not acknowledge the possibility of apostasy, this emphasis on self-examination can indirectly address the apostasy issue.

I ask any OSAS to please correct me if i am wrong.
Click to expand...
You still don't get it. You do not know what it means to be saved. You do not know the difference between being born again and experiencing the salvation of the soul.
 
Gideon300 said:
You still don't get it. You do not know what it means to be saved. You do not know the difference between being born again and experiencing the salvation of the soul.
Click to expand...
Well I do know what it means to be save because i am saved and have been sinse 2009.....Strange.....
 
I was saved sometime in eternity past when God put my name in the book of life.
I think that this may be the problem. The ones that don’t believe in OSAS are the ones who have never really had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They want to believe they play a part in keeping their salvation because it’s conjured up and not Genuine. If they had the Spirit of Truth in them they’d adhere to the truth.

I want to ask a few questions if you’ll entertain me and answer them honestly. Please don’t think they’re stupid. I will explain.

Why do you love God?

In the song “Amazing Grace” what is the prominent line in the song that lets you KNOW that the writer of the song was saved?

Please answer then and then I will explain. If you blow it off with a remark and don’t answer them then you are not fair in your debate, and I’m out. Answer them and I’ll possibly blow your mind. Thanks
 
sevoldoG said:
I was saved sometime in eternity past when God put my name in the book of life.
I think that this may be the problem. The ones that don’t believe in OSAS are the ones who have never really had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They want to believe they play a part in keeping their salvation because it’s conjured up and not Genuine. If they had the Spirit of Truth in them they’d adhere to the truth.

I want to ask a few questions if you’ll entertain me and answer them honestly. Please don’t think they’re stupid. I will explain.

Why do you love God?

In the song “Amazing Grace” what is the prominent line in the song that lets you KNOW that the writer of the song was saved?

Please answer then and then I will explain. If you blow it off with a remark and don’t answer them then you are not fair in your debate, and I’m out. Answer them and I’ll possibly blow your mind. Thanks
Click to expand...
Your accusations with no scriptures is quite telling. On the ignore list you go 😁
 
sevoldoG said:
I was saved sometime in eternity past when God put my name in the book of life.
I think that this may be the problem. The ones that don’t believe in OSAS are the ones who have never really had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They want to believe they play a part in keeping their salvation because it’s conjured up and not Genuine. If they had the Spirit of Truth in them they’d adhere to the truth.

I want to ask a few questions if you’ll entertain me and answer them honestly. Please don’t think they’re stupid. I will explain.

Why do you love God?

In the song “Amazing Grace” what is the prominent line in the song that lets you KNOW that the writer of the song was saved?

Please answer then and then I will explain. If you blow it off with a remark and don’t answer them then you are not fair in your debate, and I’m out. Answer them and I’ll possibly blow your mind. Thanks
Click to expand...

I will answer what i think........The part that say "that saved a wretch like me" I don't believe in OSAS and i know i recieved the Holy Spirit and I know the day day and year i recieved the Holy Spirit. I had a very powerful salvation experience. The part of the Song the jumped out at me fit well with my experience because the sins that i committed were very bad. I actually thought that God would not forgive me. But then the whole room filled up with what i could only describe as a mighty wind. And when it hit me i was sitting down but if i were standing it would have made me stumble.....but when that happened I felt so much shame for all that I have done. I felt the Mighty presence of God fill that room and i felt horrible. All my sins lay before me and i could not hide.......I remember that all I wanted to do was crawl under a rock and hide......this was way back in 2009 i still remember it like yesterday.........I went to say Im sorry but before the words were out of my mouth, i heard a voice say, " You do not have to say sorry anymore" and then right at that moment the feelings i had that were horrible and wanting to crawl under a rock and hide turned into the most awesome joy i have ever felt. I canl't even use words to describe what I felt. A love entered my heart that goes beyond anything i have ever felt.......Then i felt the washing away of every sin I have ever done.......I knew at the moment that this wretched sinner that i was was completelty forgive by God Almighty washed in the blood of Jesus Christ.......My experience is even more dramatic than that........I would have to write a long letter here to explain all that took place in my salvation...........So yes I know that i was filled with the Holy Spirit of God and was saved........
 
Believer08 said:
I don’t believe we “lose” salvation, as in whoops, where did I put it. I believe when one turns from the truth, then the brethren should try to turn one back for the saving of his soul (Jms. 5:19-20), and the individual would need to repent from his sin (Acts 8:22). I do believe in the eternal security of the believer for those who follow Jesus (Jn. 10:27).[/QUOTE ]if that's what you said before, it is now in a different manner. thank you for clarification
Click to expand...
 
GWH said:
If someone who accepted God's grace through faith later rejects it or repudiates their faith rather than remaining faithful to the end, they have intentionally forfeited salvation and spurned God's grace.
Click to expand...
I have to just shake my head

1. That person is against Christ
2. That person according to the 1st letter of John is antichrist
2. That person according to the same letter was never of us (never saved) if they were of us, they never would have departed.

when will you all take Gods word at face value. All of it. Make it agree with itself. And not cause it to contradict itself. Making it invalid?
 
sevoldoG said:
They get justice. What they deserve. It’s not a doctrine that gets the masses and puts money in the plate. That’s why you don’t get the truth in most modern corporations, I mean churches.
Click to expand...
Yes. Because they willfully rejected the grace Gift God offered to them
 
sevoldoG said:
They get what they deserve. Justice. I answered a similar question and Paul touched on it in Romans 9. Then you will say why have you made me like this? Who can go against his will? And Paul replied who are you to question God?
God is a just God. Everyone gets what they deserve according to Him and his will. I mean, he is the creator of ALL things. He can do whatever he wants.
Click to expand...
Yes, But he loved even them, so much he gave himself for them they rejected him, God did not reject them
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back