The rapture is close?

[Blain]

I have heard for a long time now that the rapture is close many have tried to predict it's timing but all have failed. but I had a dream and it makes me wonder about the rapture as I know everyone has different stances on it, but why give a rapture dream if it is not so?
This is the dream
a clock counting down and in this dream I somehow knew this clock was about the rapture I was on a pedestal and so were other people these pedestals rotated around the clock and then suddenly I was whisked away and the devil was searching for me hunting me down seeking to destroy me but he couldn't find me it was as if I was hidden or something.



Then another scene happens and I saw satan sitting on a throne and I said to a person next to me is that satan?



Then satan heard me and called me over by name I walked up the stairs where his throne was and he brought a women out who looked miserable and beaten he threatened to kill her if I didn't bow down to him.

I laughed and said if I recall I worship the God of the impossible anything you do he can undo then the dream ended

another user here mentioned the tribulation starting in september and then the rapture happening after a number of days and that got me thinking because I recieved this dream recently
is the rapture or the tribulation actually close? is there something that would imply this?

 

[Blain]

personally I think that while the rapture is close it is not a pretrib one and the feasts I think are a major part of the timing

 

[Blade]

I have heard for a long time now that the rapture is close many have tried to predict it's timing but all have failed. but I had a dream and it makes me wonder about the rapture as I know everyone has different stances on it, but why give a rapture dream if it is not so?
This is the dream
a clock counting down and in this dream I somehow knew this clock was about the rapture I was on a pedestal and so were other people these pedestals rotated around the clock and then suddenly I was whisked away and the devil was searching for me hunting me down seeking to destroy me but he couldn't find me it was as if I was hidden or something.



Then another scene happens and I saw satan sitting on a throne and I said to a person next to me is that satan?



Then satan heard me and called me over by name I walked up the stairs where his throne was and he brought a women out who looked miserable and beaten he threatened to kill her if I didn't bow down to him.

I laughed and said if I recall I worship the God of the impossible anything you do he can undo then the dream ended

another user here mentioned the tribulation starting in september and then the rapture happening after a number of days and that got me thinking because I recieved this dream recently
is the rapture or the tribulation actually close? is there something that would imply this?

Never had so called "caught up" Rapture dream. Just one where it was 12 seconds left on this clock and I thin looked out this window at all the stars.. Oh I can still see them and for the 1st time ever in my life and never since.. I had a knowing I have never had. I looked out the window and said "Hes coming.. He really is coming". I am not lying at all. Children or my mom dad not seen for so long.. you name it.. it was so much deeper then that. I have to back up that is just a dream or even an experience as oh wonderful as they are ...thank you Father.. I have to go by what is written.

You know when I was younger I would hear some prophecy about the future and there was no Jesus coming for the Church so I would wright them off as wrong. Some were spot on. I would doubt them because duh I knew JESUS was coming for His Church yet it seemed GOD forgot about that. As you grow in the lord I found He is never going to tell anyone. I do believe it will be in day an hour we think not. To many times as of late Hes said out of the blue when I was thinking about something else like someone talking while your talking "I am coming". And I do not talk about this anywhere. Well He said it to me.

As close as I believe I may be with Him.. He will not treat me any different. If I am not ready.. if I am walking freely in sin and He comes I personally believe I would not go. See I don't follow my personal belief only what is written. He is coming for us He told us if He went He would come again and take us receive us unto Himself so where (heaven) He is we will be. He showed Paul something. So me with out jumping into speculation and things that are not written I have to just be ready now. And I love that.. I am always (trying) to think on dwell on Him.

Not sure how we can define "close" well He said "behold I come quickly and with rewards". But have heard Hes coming March-May.. then Sept-Nov. I have problem with that I was not promise tomorrow. Hmm I think I want to watch for Him today be ready for Him today.. to think about Him oh that is so wonderful. He said He is coming quickly so.. I don't care what any man says. They have no more info on this then anyone else. I watch ready now. This is the day the lord has made I will.. not even a choice haha rejoice and be glad in it. I want to shine.. so all can see He loves them died for them.. here I am lord use me

 

[Melach]

my advice would be to stop believing in dreams and visions and stop listening to the pop-prophets who are always wrong. every single time. and they will continue to be wrong every single time.

 

[Blain]

my advice would be to stop believing in dreams and visions and stop listening to the pop-prophets who are always wrong. every single time. and they will continue to be wrong every single time.

WEll I don't have dreams very often but when I do it is wise to pay attention to them as long as you know it was from God. but yeah as far as prophets go I have yet to find a real one to listen to and oddly most of them say the same things you would think they would say something more profound but no it is just the same stuff and then they end up wrong.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The rapture is close?

It's a day closer than it was yesterday.

 

[tharkun]

There is no 7-yr tribulation so-named in scripture.

 

[Blain]

There is no 7-yr tribulation so-named in scripture.

what do you mean there is no 7 year tribulation? how do you understand the tribulation to go then?

 

[tharkun]

The 7 yr period of Daniel is never called 'the tribulation' in scripture; that is simply manmade hogwash. Jesus only spoke of the 'great tribulation' which begins at the AoD (Matt 24), which, per Daniel 9, is at the midpoint of the last 7 yr period. The GT is cut short by the signs of the sun, moon and stars that are spoken of in Joel 2:31. Per Joel, these signs are BEFORE the DotL. Therefore, there is no 'tribulation' of the first half of the 70th week; and there is no DotL until after the GT and after the triple signs in the sky.

 

[Blain]

The 7 yr period of Daniel is never called 'the tribulation' in scripture; that is simply manmade hogwash. Jesus only spoke of the 'great tribulation' which begins at the AoD (Matt 24), which, per Daniel 9, is at the midpoint of the last 7 yr period. The GT is cut short by the signs of the sun, moon and stars that are spoken of in Joel 2:31. Per Joel, these signs are BEFORE the DotL. Therefore, there is no 'tribulation' of the first half of the 70th week; and there is no DotL until after the GT and after the triple signs in the sky.

so there is no mention of a seven year tribulation just the great tribulation right? where do you think the harpazo comes into play in that time?

 

[tharkun]

To be crystal clear, all of what I wrote above ASSUMES that pre-millenial futurism is the proper framework to interpret eschatology. I, myself, an open to that question as I have seen some merit in other schools of thought as well (amillenialism, preterism, etc.).

However, assuming futurism is the correct framework, the harpazo/rapture takes place at an unkown point within the last 3.5 yr period. The sequence within the last 3.5 yrs would be: AoD (at midpoint of the 70th week) - GT starts - GT cut short with the 6th seal/triple sign indicating the imminent onset of the DotL - rapture/harpazo takes place - DotL begins and finishes out the last 3.5 yr period.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The 7 yr period of Daniel is never called 'the tribulation' in scripture; that is simply manmade hogwash.

Hello Tharkun

I disagree slightly with what you've put here.

Please allow me to present a few reasons, for your consideration.

Jesus only spoke of the 'great tribulation' which begins at the AoD (Matt 24), which, per Daniel 9, is at the midpoint of the last 7 yr period.

While I agree that Jesus spoke of "great tribulation [G2347; thlipsis]" which commences the SECOND HALF of the "70th Week" (7 year period) and did so in verse 21 of Matt24 (which follows what we read about in v.15--the AOD at the MID-point); Jesus ALSO spoke using the SAME "G2347 thlipsin" word a bit earlier in the chapter when He'd just referred to "the BEGINNING of birth-PANGS" (vv.4-8)... so in verse 9 He uses this SAME Greek word "thlipsin [G2347; NOUN]" (as happening at that time; that is, BEFORE the AOD point in the chronology)... here's how a few versions have that word translated:

Berean Literal Bible
Then will they deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of My name.

New King James Version
“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.

New American Standard Bible
“Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.

NASB 1995
“Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.


The "beginning of birth pangs" (Matt24:4-8, etc) ARE the "Seals" of Rev6, which fall WITHIN the time period of the "7 years"/"70th Week of Daniel".


And Paul (in 1Th5:2-3) says the ARRIVAL of the DOTL is "exactly like [hosper; G5618]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" OF those "beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" (the very ones Jesus had spoken of--so the INITIAL ONE OF those is told of in Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "[be ware of] A CERTAIN ONE [G5100-tis; 'a certain one' bringing deception]"; i.e. the rider on the white horse with a BOW ['bow' often meaning deception, in scripture], aka Seal #1)

The GT is cut short by the signs of the sun, moon and stars that are spoken of in Joel 2:31. Per Joel, these signs are BEFORE the DotL.

Here is another vital clue.

I see many suggesting what you are saying, but read Joel 2:31 very carefully.
It is speaking of the "moon into blood" (i.e. the 6th Seal) taking place "BEFORE the GREAT" aspect of the DOTL.
It isn't saying "before the DOTL" but "before the GREAT" [part] (i.e. second HALF); therefore falling within what we call the first half (which is when "the beginning of birth pangs" [i.e. Seals] do indeed occur).

Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 ("things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" = the "7 year period" / "70th Week of Daniel") agrees as well.



Also, there is Hosea 5:14-6:3 to consider (context: speaking of Israel in that future tribulation period) says in 5:15, "...in their [Israel's] AFFLICTION [LXX--thlipsin G2347]" they will seek Me early [or, earnestly]." (the text going on to supply a time-slot: "after TWO DAYS" [i.e. after 2000 yrs--aka this present age (singular)]--This AGREES with all other passages on this Subject, meaning, the SEQUENCE ISSUES [/timing] all agree).


So those are at least a couple of mentions of this word "tribulation"; and referring to what will take place even PRIOR TO the "AOD" MID-point and following.

Therefore, there is no 'tribulation' of the first half of the 70th week;

Disagree, on the basis of what I spelled out above...

and there is no DotL until after the GT and after the triple signs in the sky.

...and again I disagree, on the basis of what I spelled out in this post.



Hope this helps you see my perspective on this point. = )






And welcome to CC. Hope to see you around the boards.

 

[Johnjunior]

Deuteronomy 13: 1 - 3
1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

He is coming for us He told us if He went He would come again and take us receive us unto Himself so where (heaven) He is we will be. He showed Paul something. So me with out jumping into speculation and things that are not written I have to just be ready now. And I love that.. I am always (trying) to think on dwell on Him.

Incorrect, the Saints shall inherit the Earth, you ain't going to heaven. Only satan desires a rapture.

 

[Blain]

Deuteronomy 13: 1 - 3
1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.



Incorrect, the Saints shall inherit the Earth, you ain't going to heaven. Only satan desires a rapture.

satan wanting a rapture? that doesn't make sense why would he want the saints to go to heaven?

 

[Blain]

1 Thessalonians 4:17 which states, "Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord

 

[tharkun]

Hello Tharkun


While I agree that Jesus spoke of "great tribulation [G2347; thlipsis]" which commences the SECOND HALF of the "70th Week" (7 year period) and did so in verse 21 of Matt24 (which follows what we read about in v.15--the AOD at the MID-point); Jesus ALSO spoke using the SAME "G2347 thlipsin" word a bit earlier in the chapter when He'd just referred to "the BEGINNING of birth-PANGS" (vv.4-8)... so in verse 9 He uses this SAME Greek word "thlipsin [G2347; NOUN]" (as happening at that time; that is, BEFORE the AOD point in the chronology)... here's how a few versions have that word translated:

But the beginning of the birthpangs are nowhere equated with the beginning of 70th week of Daniel. The thlipsis Jesus spoken of has been happening the entire length of the church.

The "beginning of birth pangs" (Matt24:4-8, etc) ARE the "Seals" of Rev6, which fall WITHIN the time period of the "7 years"/"70th Week of Daniel".

This is pure conjecture. Nothing explicity connects the Seals with the beginning of the 70th week either. While I can see a parallel between the birth pangs and the seals, there is no scripture that equates them within the 70th week.

And Paul (in 1Th5:2-3) says the ARRIVAL of the DOTL is "exactly like [hosper; G5618]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" OF those "beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" (the very ones Jesus had spoken of--so the INITIAL ONE OF those is told of in Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "[be ware of] A CERTAIN ONE [G5100-tis; 'a certain one' bringing deception]"; i.e. the rider on the white horse with a BOW ['bow' often meaning deception, in scripture], aka Seal #1)

Again, this is pure conjecture, Nothing explicity connects the 1st horseman with the one bringing deception. In fact, the 1st rider is not described as deceiving at all, just conquering. And to be consistent, if the 1st horseman is a literal person, to be consistent in your exegesis, the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th riders must be literal people also. Is that what you believe?

I see many suggesting what you are saying, but read Joel 2:31 very carefully.
It is speaking of the "moon into blood" (i.e. the 6th Seal) taking place "BEFORE the GREAT" aspect of the DOTL.
It isn't saying "before the DOTL" but "before the GREAT" [part] (i.e. second HALF); therefore falling within what we call the first half (which is when "the beginning of birth pangs" [i.e. Seals] do indeed occur).

But you've done nothing but cut off part of verse to make your point, not a legal interpretive move. The Dotl and the GT are distinct periods of time within the 70th week that do not overlap as I showed previously. Per Isaiah 2, "the Lord alone will be exalted in that day" (the DotL). This can hardly be said to be true when the AC is commiting the GT and is overcoming the entire earth.

Also, there is Hosea 5:14-6:3 to consider (context: speaking of Israel in that future tribulation period) says in 5:15, "...in their [Israel's] AFFLICTION [LXX--thlipsin G2347]" they will seek Me early [or, earnestly]." (the text going on to supply a time-slot: "after TWO DAYS" [i.e. after 2000 yrs--aka this present age (singular)]--This AGREES with all other passages on this Subject, meaning, the SEQUENCE ISSUES [/timing] all agree).

Your making my point for me, the tribulation spoken of is a general tribulation that all will experience. If it's been going on for 2000 years, it can't be explicity tied only to the 70th week. When do you see the 2000 supposed years ending, 2033? 2000 years after the birth of the church?

So those are at least a couple of mentions of this word "tribulation"; and referring to what will take place even PRIOR TO the "AOD" MID-point and following.

I agree that general 'tribulation' will occur before the AOD; but it isn't confined to only the 70th week. After the AoD, the GT begins - a specific time of extreme persecution at the hands of the AC that will be 'cut short' when the triple sign occurs in the sky. The same sign that Joel says precedes the DotL. The GT is not a part of the DotL.

Appreciate the dialogue, but I see nothing on your arguments that convinces away from what I previously posted. Thanks.

 

[Johnjunior]

satan wanting a rapture? that doesn't make sense why would he want the saints to go to heaven?

That's what you're not understanding. He desires it because Heaven is where he came from. In fact the only individual in the entire bible who wants to go to heaven is Satan. Satan has ministers so his ministers teach his desire thats why the number one thing you are warned about in the bible is false prophets. The prophets and apostles spoke of resurrection and the kingdom to come on Earth. That's why it is written the meek shall inherit the Earth.

Isaiah 14: 12 - 15
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

 

[Johnjunior]

1 Thessalonians 4:17 which states, "Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord

The key word is MEET

When you meet up someone then the next question should be where we going from there? Remember the angel said Jesus will come again likewise so his feet needs to touch the mount of Olives.
Acts 1: 9 - 12
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
Remember Jesus LEFT Heaven and the Saints rushed to meet him in the air but Jesus feet still needs to touch the mount of Olives and when he comes he coming with power as the LION of the tribe of Judah and he is making war with his Saints.

Zecahariah 14: 1 - 5, 9
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Where did GOD get all these Saints from? It's simple they met him in the air that you pointed out in 1 Thessalonians 4. Now we not done yet this is best part.

9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

Man that's beautiful, that's we pray THY KINGDOM COME. Tired of these corrupt politicians, Earth will finally have the Saviour as our ruler. Praise the LORD. amen.

 

[Blain]

That's what you're not understanding. He desires it because Heaven is where he came from. In fact the only individual in the entire bible who wants to go to heaven is Satan. Satan has ministers so his ministers teach his desire thats why the number one thing you are warned about in the bible is false prophets. The prophets and apostles spoke of resurrection and the kingdom to come on Earth. That's why it is written the meek shall inherit the Earth.

Isaiah 14: 12 - 15
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

That still doesn't make sense he wants to rule over heaven but if say the rapture happens it isn't satan that does it it is God and satan will not succeed. not to mention he already is able to visit heaven like he did with job but that is God's domain. where in the scriptures does it say that the harpazo has anything to do with satan? it doeesn't it says we will be caught up to meet Jesus Christ not satan

 

[Blain]

The key word is MEET

When you meet up someone then the next question should be where we going from there? Remember the angel said Jesus will come again likewise so his feet needs to touch the mount of Olives.
Acts 1: 9 - 12
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
Remember Jesus LEFT Heaven and the Saints rushed to meet him in the air but Jesus feet still needs to touch the mount of Olives and when he comes he coming with power as the LION of the tribe of Judah and he is making war with his Saints.

Zecahariah 14: 1 - 5, 9
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Where did GOD get all these Saints from? It's simple they met him in the air that you pointed out in 1 Thessalonians 4. Now we not done yet this is best part.

9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

Man that's beautiful, that's we pray THY KINGDOM COME. Tired of these corrupt politicians, Earth will finally have the Saviour as our ruler. Praise the LORD. amen.

yes but those are seperate events his second coming is not the harpazo