The rapture is close?

[Johnjunior]

It says a man in Christ I don't know how to simplify that more for you if it was talking about Christ he would have said so and also Paul did not know Christ at the time of his ascension so I don't know how you can assume it is Christ it says plain as dfay it wasn't

The very fact that PAUL said this "Such an one caught up to the 3rd heaven" Then he said this in 1 Timothy 6: 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Paul wrote the book of Timothy, and he wrote the book of Corinthians he cannot say someone went to Heaven in Corinthians and then tell a different group of people aint no man can approach it. The man in Christ is Jesus. Christ is a title. How can I explain this better? That's why Jesus kept calling himself "the son of Man" Jesus is the only man who has and will ever ascend into heaven.

 

[Blain]

The very fact that PAUL said this "Such an one caught up to the 3rd heaven" Then he said this in 1 Timothy 6: 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Paul wrote the book of Timothy, and he wrote the book of Corinthians he cannot say someone went to Heaven in Corinthians and then tell a different group of people aint no man can approach it. The man in Christ is Jesus. Christ is a title. How can I explain this better? That's why Jesus kept calling himself "the son of Man" Jesus is the only man who has and will ever ascend into heaven.

that might make sense if Paul knew him at the time he ascended but in the verse he said he knew a man in Christ Paul didn't know Jesus at the time of the ascension and he certainly did not write to the corinthians 14 years after his ascension not only that he says caught up not ascend there is a difference in the two

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Jesus is the only man who has and will ever ascend into heaven.

And yet, in Rev11:12, that text tells us that the "2W" whom the text also calls "these two prophets" (after they are killed and then stand again on their feet) are told (from "a great voice from heaven") to "COME UP HITHER" and then the text states, "and they ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them".

Do you believe this?

Why does this say the OPPOSITE of what you are saying?

Perhaps you've misunderstood one or the other of the two texts?? Maybe?

he cannot say someone went to Heaven in Corinthians and then tell a different group of people aint no man can approach it.

[ditto what I said above]

 

[Johnjunior]

that might make sense if Paul knew him at the time he ascended but in the verse he said he knew a man in Christ Paul didn't know Jesus at the time of the ascension and he certainly did not write to the corinthians 14 years after his ascension not only that he says caught up not ascend there is a difference in the two

Ok, so use scripture in the bible to show the difference between caught up and ascended because this is news to me.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Ok, so use scripture in the bible to show the difference between caught up and ascended because this is news to me.

"[G726] SNATCH" (or "caught up" as the kjv has it) is very distinct from when, for example, Jesus was shown "going / traveling / journeying up to heaven" in Acts 1:11 (which, is how He will RETURN Rev19, FOR the promised and prophesied MK age ["shall SO come IN LIKE MANNER as ye have SEEN Him journeying [G4198 - poreuō ] into heaven"]).

One is extremely sudden ("SNATCH - G726"); the other is not--they watched WHILE HE WAS GOING/JOURNEYING UP.

(that is two VERY DISTINCT things)

 

[Johnjunior]

And yet, in Rev11:12, that text tells us that the "2W" whom the text also calls "these two prophets" (after they are killed and then stand again on their feet) are told (from "a great voice from heaven") to "COME UP HITHER" and then the text states, "and they ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them".

Do you believe this?

Yes I believe that scripture 100% but you notice every time the word Heaven is used in the bible it doesn't tell you which Heaven is being referred to?
psalms 148: 1 - 4
1 Praise ye the Lord. Praise ye the Lord from the heavens: praise him in the heights.

2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.

3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.

4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

Genesis 7: 1, 9 - 11
1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

9 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Lets see what happened when GOD stopped the rain
Genesis 8: 1 - 2
1 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged;

2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;


You do realize the windows of heaven mean the sky, right? What causes rain to fall from the sky? CLOUDS.

Again, there is more than one heaven which one are you referring to?

 

[Blain]

Ok, so use scripture in the bible to show the difference between caught up and ascended because this is news to me.

Scripture is not needed to understand it it's really a definition issue. to ascend is to rise up on one's own to be caught up is to rise by someone else really snatching is the correct term

 

[Johnjunior]

[G726] "SNATCH" is very distinct from when, for example, Jesus was shown "going / traveling / journeying up to heaven" in Acts 1:11 (which, is how He will RETURN Rev19, FOR the promised and prophesied MK age ["shall SO come IN LIKE MANNER as ye have SEEN Him journeying [G4198 - poreuō ] into heaven"]).

One is extremely sudden ("SNATCH - G726"); the other is not--they watched WHILE HE WAS GOING/JOURNEYING UP.

(that is two VERY DISTINCT things)

Dude why are you confusing me, just post the scripture I don't know what G4198 and all that stuff means. If you aint got no scripture then say so. I deal with the uncut word of GOD. If I can't read it then I don't believe it.

 

[Johnjunior]

Scripture is not needed to understand it it's really a definition issue. to ascend is to rise up on one's own to be caught up is to rise by someone else really snatching is the correct term

Then use examples in the actual scriptures to show the difference, there are 66 books in this bible for a reason. Pull out of your treasure things old (Old Testament) and new (New Testament). To the law and to the testimony.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

"shall SO come IN LIKE MANNER as ye have SEEN Him journeying [G4198 - poreuō ] into heaven"

Dude why are you confusing me, just post the scripture I don't know what G4198 and all that stuff means. If you aint got no scripture then say so. I deal with the uncut word of GOD. If I can't read it then I don't believe it.

I just did. Read it again.

Acts 1. Read it also in your copy of the Bible, if you don't believe that WHAT I TYPED OUT is there.

I supplied the Greek word so you would see that it is NOT "G726" ("caught up" or "snatched"); and explained the differences.




The text does not say that Jesus was "caught up [G726]" (read every instance speaking of His ascension--it never uses this word "G726"... because He was NOT "SNACTHED"/"caught up").

The text elsewhere, DOES say that WE will be "caught up [/SNATCHED - G726]"

Learn the difference.

 

[Johnjunior]

You can take your time I will be back later to see your answer with scriptures.
Isaiah 8: 20
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[Blain]

Dude why are you confusing me, just post the scripture I don't know what G4198 and all that stuff means. If you aint got no scripture then say so. I deal with the uncut word of GOD. If I can't read it then I don't believe it.

there is no scripture to explain the difference it is just common knowledge

 

[Johnjunior]

I just did. Read it again.

Acts 1. Read it also in your copy of the Bible, if you don't believe that WHAT I TYPED OUT is there.

I supplied the Greek word so you would see that it is NOT "G726" ("caught up"); and explained the differences.

It says he was taken up which means he ascended into heaven because Heaven is above the Earth. THE ONLY WAY TO GO UP IS TO ASCEND. You guys are making it seems like there are two different meaning when its literally the same. Heaven has always been above the Earth. I read it in my bible.

 

[Blain]

Then use examples in the actual scriptures to show the difference, there are 66 books in this bible for a reason. Pull out of your treasure things old (Old Testament) and new (New Testament). To the law and to the testimony.

There isn't scripture to spell the difference out for you it is just common knowledge surely you are able to discern the two, but anyways I need to go do some things so I will have to leave it at this for now

 

[Johnjunior]

there is no scripture to explain the difference it is just common knowledge

Wait so its common knowledge that caught up and ascended means two different things? That is very interesting. I guess when someone walks in from the streets seeking Jesus that's what you tell them. How does one get caught up to Heaven (3rd Heaven) and ascend to Heaven (3rd Heaven) to mean 2 different things? Different route to get to Heaven?

I asked these things because I want to appeal to your common sense. Come and let us reason together. The day you hear GOD's voice don't harden your hearts. The only way to get to heaven is to go up. All you need to do is put some bible verse up that show me the difference between the two and I WILL READ IT.

I am genuinely confused and if no verses are given then imma leave this alone and assume you guys just refuse to believe that no man other than Jesus went to Heaven.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

I have heard for a long time now that the rapture is close many have tried to predict it's timing but all have failed.

I've got a book the PROVES BIBLICALLY beyond doubt that the rapture WILL HAPPEN during the "Feast of Trumpets" in 1988!!!! It gives 88 reasons that it MUST BE TRUE!!! I can hardly wait!!!

The afternoon would be fine.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

TheDivineWatermark said:
[ETA to the end of my last post] ^ and there is NO requirement for John to have seen it take place; but there are SEVERAL EVIDENCES in the text of chpts 4-5 that show / indicate that IT HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE (meaning, "our SNATCH [G726]" and its resultant 1Th3:13 location and the BEMA having taken place by that point).

That is a lie

Then HOW would you say that the "24 elders" (saints who are shown sitting on "24 thrones" surrounding the "throne" shown to be "IN HEAVEN"-chpt 4) are shown to be wearing the awarded "stephanous / crowns," when Paul had said he would be awarded a "stephanos / crown" "IN THAT DAY" (and not to him only), speaking of the awards / rewards that take place at the "BEMA of Christ" (not when Paul died)--2Ti4:8?

Explain please.




[and I missed your other post... stating that the "24 elders" are named men from Chron24 (are these men from ONE NATION, and yet Rev4-5 has the "24 elders" saying of themselves "[redeemed us to God] out-of EVERY nation..." etc); I would simply point out that there are at least THREE SEPARATE SETS of "24 [names]" from OT contexts that I am aware of... and you've only pointed out ONE set of "24 [names]" to apply to these "24 elders"--I wonder why that is? Just curious]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I've got a book the PROVES BIBLICALLY beyond doubt that the rapture WILL HAPPEN during the "Feast of Trumpets" in 1988!!!! It gives 88 reasons that it MUST BE TRUE!!! I can hardly wait!!!

The afternoon would be fine.

Aww... the man who wrote that book based his "figurings" on the faulty "Historicist" hermeneutic, so naturally came to incorrect conclusions.



["1260 DAYS" is "1260 DAYS" not "1260 *years*"--one of the many MIS-steps of such hermeneutic, sorry to say]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

It is a vain thing for GOD to make the Earth, then take everyone to Heaven after Judgment Day.

The "Rapture [G726 - SNATCH]" pertains SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (Eph1:20-23 "WHEN [as to its existence]"), that is, ALL believers saved "in this present age [singular]"; It does NOT pertain to all other saints of all OTHER time-periods (not to "OT saints"... not to Trib saints... not to MK-age saints). It pertains to those "IN Christ" (i.e. the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY; those permanently indwelt and sealed with the Holy Spirit--SEE what was stated about the Holy Spirit in John 7:39, for starters...).

So we're not saying "EVERYONE" (as you put in your quote at top), as in "EVERY SAINT of ALL TIMES"... no. "Our Rapture" does NOT pertain to "EVERY saint EVER".

After Jesus RETURNS to the earth is when (for example) the "Sheep and goat judgment of the NATIONS" takes place (NO ONE is being "raptured" in this Matt25 passage). The SHEEP [OF THE NATIONS--pl] (still-living persons at the END of the Trib yrs--no one is being "resurrected" in this Matt25 context either) will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing / bearing children. They are "believers," but none of these are being "raptured / caught up [G726]"--no, they enter the time-period of the EARTHLY MK age ("INHERIT the kingdom having been prepared for you...").




Same for the text of Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 (and its parallel in Matt24), where verse 36 states, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN "the meal [G347]" ("when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" means He will be an "ALREADY-WED Bridegroom," and these folks / saints in this passage will remain on the earth just as in the Matt25 passage--no one will be "raptured/SNATCHED [G726]" because "rapture" does NOT pertain to those saints (of that time-period). They [/believers/saints ONLY] will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies (not be lifted off the earth, as WE will be!)

 

[Randy4u2c]

II Thes 2:1-4 clearly states that we will not be gathered to Christ until AFTER the son of perdition (Satan as Antichrist), is revealed and stands in the holy place claiming to be God. His deception, lies and signs will cause many to fall away from worshipping the true God. You must be aware that Satan will come first, before Jesus, claiming to be him in order to escape from being deceived.

The true Lord appears AFTER Satan is revealed and will destroy him with the breath of his mouth and the brightness of his coming. II Thes 2:8. Know this...The first one taken in the field is taken by Antichrist because they think he is God. The one left behind is the one that knows Satan is a fake and will stand against him to expose his lies with the Holy Spirit speaking through them, Math 10:16-20. May God give you eyes to see.