The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”
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I suspect you didn't know what you were talking about in the first place. Else you would know my post educated your deficiency in understanding both parables .
Jesus,who was the manifestation of God as flesh,told us he will lose no one,not one, whom he leads to understanding and thus eternal salvation. It is irrevocable.
God! Taught that and then died to seal that new covenant,contract,with his divine blood. Then,to fulfill the proof of his eternal life through salvation covenantal teaching,he resurrected after three days and showed himself to his Disciples as returned in glorified flesh,to prove the truth of the words of The Word made flesh.
Numbers have great significance in Hebrew scripture. 3,40. Look them up.
Covenants were sealed in blood for a reason. Look that up as well.
Thank you.
God bless.
Amen.
Jesus,who was the manifestation of God as flesh,told us he will lose no one,not one, whom he leads to understanding and thus eternal salvation. It is irrevocable.
God! Taught that and then died to seal that new covenant,contract,with his divine blood. Then,to fulfill the proof of his eternal life through salvation covenantal teaching,he resurrected after three days and showed himself to his Disciples as returned in glorified flesh,to prove the truth of the words of The Word made flesh.
Numbers have great significance in Hebrew scripture. 3,40. Look them up.
Covenants were sealed in blood for a reason. Look that up as well.
Thank you.
God bless.
Amen.
You have 15 more Scriptures left to deny, but here is a way passages that seem to support predestination may be harmonized with those supporting free will or perseverance:
1. John 10:27-29 – being “unsnatchable” does not disallow a person from choosing to jump out of the “Father’s hand”. Also, in JN 6:37 “never drive away” does not mean a person cannot go away, and in JN 6:39 “I shall lose none” may refer to those who persevere or do not stray, who stand firm, who endure, who hold firmly, etc.
2. Romans 8:38-39 – “anything else” may refer to powers other than one’s own will.
3. Rom 14:4&10, Paul says not to judge a servant of Jesus, who is able to make them stand before God’s judgment. The verb “make” may mean “provide a way”.
4. 1Cor 1:8, 10:12 & 15:58, Paul says that Jesus will keep the Corinthian believers firm to the end, warns them that if they think they are standing firm to be careful that they don’t fall and therefore, stand firm, letting nothing move them from the work of the Lord. These verses indicate that standing firm involves a believer cooperating with the way Jesus provides.
5. 2Cor 1:20-24, Paul says that God makes us stand firm in Christ and anointed our hearts with the HS as a seal and deposit; it is by faith that we stand firm. This indicates that the way God provides for standing firm is for believers to persevere in cooperating with the HS.
6. Ephesians 1:11-14 – what is “predestined” is God’s plan to choose or elect anyone who desires to be “in him” or to satisfy GRFS. Thus, being “marked in him with a seal” does not abrogate moral free will (cf. 2PT 1:10f).
7. 1 John 2:19 – when synthesized with verse 24 must mean that those who repudiate their Faith do not eternally “belong”.
8. Psalm 135:6 – in light of “volitional verses” (such as DT 30:19 & MT 23:37) means that God “pleases” to permit limited free will.
9. Proverbs 21:1 – in order not to make God responsible for the sins cited in the rest of the chapter must mean that the “king’s heart” or will is choosing to cooperate with the Lord’s “hand” or directions.
1. John 10:27-29 – being “unsnatchable” does not disallow a person from choosing to jump out of the “Father’s hand”. Also, in JN 6:37 “never drive away” does not mean a person cannot go away, and in JN 6:39 “I shall lose none” may refer to those who persevere or do not stray, who stand firm, who endure, who hold firmly, etc.
2. Romans 8:38-39 – “anything else” may refer to powers other than one’s own will.
3. Rom 14:4&10, Paul says not to judge a servant of Jesus, who is able to make them stand before God’s judgment. The verb “make” may mean “provide a way”.
4. 1Cor 1:8, 10:12 & 15:58, Paul says that Jesus will keep the Corinthian believers firm to the end, warns them that if they think they are standing firm to be careful that they don’t fall and therefore, stand firm, letting nothing move them from the work of the Lord. These verses indicate that standing firm involves a believer cooperating with the way Jesus provides.
5. 2Cor 1:20-24, Paul says that God makes us stand firm in Christ and anointed our hearts with the HS as a seal and deposit; it is by faith that we stand firm. This indicates that the way God provides for standing firm is for believers to persevere in cooperating with the HS.
6. Ephesians 1:11-14 – what is “predestined” is God’s plan to choose or elect anyone who desires to be “in him” or to satisfy GRFS. Thus, being “marked in him with a seal” does not abrogate moral free will (cf. 2PT 1:10f).
7. 1 John 2:19 – when synthesized with verse 24 must mean that those who repudiate their Faith do not eternally “belong”.
8. Psalm 135:6 – in light of “volitional verses” (such as DT 30:19 & MT 23:37) means that God “pleases” to permit limited free will.
9. Proverbs 21:1 – in order not to make God responsible for the sins cited in the rest of the chapter must mean that the “king’s heart” or will is choosing to cooperate with the Lord’s “hand” or directions.
I mentioned the severity of the way the word translated as "falling away" in Heb6 is used in Scripture. By the way it us used in the OC we can get an idea of how the writer of Hebrews is using it.
We can read all those sections of Ezekial and see how the LXX translators used it to translate Hebrew:
13 "Son of man, when a land sins against Me by persistent unfaithfulness, I will stretch out My hand against it; I will cut off its supply of bread, send famine on it, and cut off man and beast from it. 14 "Even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness," says the Lord GOD. 15 "If I cause wild beasts to pass through the land, and they empty it, and make it so desolate that no man may pass through because of the beasts, 16 "even though these three men were in it, as I live," says the Lord GOD, "they would deliver neither sons nor daughters; only they would be delivered, and the land would be desolate. (Ezek. 14:13-16 NKJ)
- When the LXX translators read the Hebrew translated here as "persistent unfaithfulness" they used our Heb6 word "falling away" to partially translate it into Greek. So, they seem pretty clearly to be saying "falling away" has to do with persistent unfaithfulness which IMO makes sense in the Heb6 context.
- We can see here how the Lord God treated such persistent unfaithfulness - He basically obliterated it and left only the righteous 3 men who could do absolutely nothing to save those who had fallen away - had been persistently unfaithful.
- Bottom line, falling away has severe consequences in Ezekial and IMO Hebrews, especially with the language re: crucifying Christ again and putting Him to open shame.
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Or,you have 15 passages to learn and understand. God is not a man that he should lie.
Why would we,who can and do,presume to insist God's words don't really mean what he said? And then died to reiterate and seal eternally
Believe you can lose all God did for you on the cross.
Please don't try to get me to follow you.
I follow eternal God. And he says you are mistaken.
Why would we,who can and do,presume to insist God's words don't really mean what he said? And then died to reiterate and seal eternally
Believe you can lose all God did for you on the cross.
Please don't try to get me to follow you.
I follow eternal God. And he says you are mistaken.
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.
James 1:5
We do not lean on our own understanding. God's truth ,as we are told, is not to be understood by that ego pride driven natural consciousness.
This,as he tells us,is why Jesus taught his ministry of eternal life and salvation using parables.
If all would understand in simple terms,his truth would become the possession of our pride. "We alone know God and you don't!" , type stuff. That's vanity. Which of course is not of God.
So,God talked to us in his way. And in doing so would tell us,when he deems it time,we shall understand. Come to the knowledge of the,his,truth.
Till then we cannot. Many are called. Few are his chosen.
Don't worry. Remember what Jesus said. You may share. However, only the heart called by God asks.
Until then,what we say is received and judged as foolishness.
"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him."
(hugs you) God bless.
Amen.
James 1:5
We do not lean on our own understanding. God's truth ,as we are told, is not to be understood by that ego pride driven natural consciousness.
This,as he tells us,is why Jesus taught his ministry of eternal life and salvation using parables.
If all would understand in simple terms,his truth would become the possession of our pride. "We alone know God and you don't!" , type stuff. That's vanity. Which of course is not of God.
So,God talked to us in his way. And in doing so would tell us,when he deems it time,we shall understand. Come to the knowledge of the,his,truth.
Till then we cannot. Many are called. Few are his chosen.
Don't worry. Remember what Jesus said. You may share. However, only the heart called by God asks.
Until then,what we say is received and judged as foolishness.
"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him."
(hugs you) God bless.
Amen.