The rapture is close?

[Johnjunior]

I've got a book the PROVES BIBLICALLY beyond doubt that the rapture WILL HAPPEN during the "Feast of Trumpets" in 1988!!!! It gives 88 reasons that it MUST BE TRUE!!! I can hardly wait!!!

The afternoon would be fine.

The Memorial of the blowing of the trumpets is a High Sabbath outlined in Leviticus the 23rd chapter and it reminds Saints what will occur when the trumpets are blown. Jesus does not leave Heaven until the 7th trump is blown. Which means during the great tribulation you and everyone else that believe this lie of a rapture will start killing your pastors because the abomination of desolation is going to wreak havoc on this Earth and GOD will have his saints hiding in the wilderness.

Then HOW would you say that the "24 elders" (saints who are shown sitting on "24 thrones" surrounding the "throne" shown to be "IN HEAVEN"-chpt 4) are shown to be wearing the awarded "stephanous / crowns," when Paul had said he would be awarded a "stephanos / crown" "IN THAT DAY" (and not to him only), speaking of the awards / rewards that take place at the "BEMA of Christ" (not when Paul died)--2Ti4:8?

Explain please.




[and I missed your other post... stating that the "24 elders" are named men from Chron24 (are these men from ONE NATION, and yet Rev4-5 has the "24 elders" saying of themselves "[redeemed us to God] out-of EVERY nation..." etc); I would simply point out that there are at least THREE SEPARATE SETS of "24 [names]" from OT contexts that I am aware of... and you've only pointed out ONE set of "24 [names]" to apply to these "24 elders"--I wonder why that is? Just curious]

If the 24 elders have the crown, then obviously this event occurs after the resurrection, The 24 elders are all names in the chapter I indicated and they are Hebrew Israelites, don't worry GOD will save Gentiles, Hamites and Shemites but the 24 elders are Israelites and me and you can't do nothing about that.

Zerubbabel will rebuild the temple. Did you even read the prophet of Ezekiel?

Ezekiel 43: 1 - 2, 4 - 7
1 Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east:

2 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.

You noticed it stated GOD came from the East and not Heaven? Because Jesus is already on Earth because that's his desire. To live here.

4 And the glory of the Lord came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.

5 So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house.

6 And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.

7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.

Do you notice that Jesus wants to dwell in the midst of Israel forever?

Do you know that each of the gates of New Jerusalem has the names of the 12 tribes of Israel?

GOD wants to save everyone but his throne will be in Jerusalem in the midst of the children of Israel and the children of Israel are NOT in the third heaven the entire nation is here on Earth. That's why he said over and over I will gather them and return them to their land. ACCEPT what is written, I guarantee you will love it. Why defend a doctrine taught by a minister who teaches lies. The book clearly says Jesus will be here so accept it.

One more Scripture for this post.
Daniel 7: 1 - 2, 15 - 18, 27
7 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.

2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.

I hope you know what the 4 winds represent, lets go down and see what else this chapter states.

15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.

16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.

17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Huh so the Saints going to take the kingdom. Now I need find out where this kingdom going to be.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

[Johnjunior]

The "Rapture [G726 - SNATCH]" pertains SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (Eph1:20-23 "WHEN [as to its existence]"), that is, ALL believers saved "in this present age [singular]"; It does NOT pertain to all other saints of all OTHER time-periods (not to "OT saints"... not to Trib saints... not to MK-age saints). It pertains to those "IN Christ" (i.e. the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY; those permanently indwelt and sealed with the Holy Spirit--SEE what was stated about the Holy Spirit in John 7:39, for starters...).

So we're not saying "EVERYONE" (as you put in your quote at top), as in "EVERY SAINT of ALL TIMES"... no. "Our Rapture" does NOT pertain to "EVERY saint EVER".

After Jesus RETURNS to the earth is when (for example) the "Sheep and goat judgment of the NATIONS" takes place (NO ONE is being "raptured" in this Matt25 passage). The SHEEP [OF THE NATIONS--pl] (still-living persons at the END of the Trib yrs--no one is being "resurrected" in this Matt25 context either) will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing / bearing children. They are "believers," but none of these are being "raptured / caught up [G726]"--no, they enter the time-period of the EARTHLY MK age ("INHERIT the kingdom having been prepared for you...").




Same for the text of Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 (and its parallel in Matt24), where verse 36 states, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN "the meal [G347]" ("when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" means He will be an "ALREADY-WED Bridegroom," and these folks / saints in this passage will remain on the earth just as in the Matt25 passage--no one will be "raptured/SNATCHED [G726]" because "rapture" does NOT pertain to those saints (of that time-period). They [/believers/saints ONLY] will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies (not be lifted off the earth, as WE will be!)

So there is a rapture for special Saints? LOL

Man who taught you all these lies, like, seriously? There are TWO resurrections. The first one occurs when the 7th trump is blown as highlighted by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 - 17 the second one occurs after a 1000 years. Jesus will be ruling this Earth for a 1000 years. Flesh and blood can go up to Jerusalem to worship Jesus during the 1000 years. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the fathers Kingdom but during Jesus reign on this Earth flesh and blood will be present.
Isaiah 66: 1, 15
1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

I already highlighted that David found out where the LORD's rest is and shown you time and time again the LORD will rest on David's throne while ruling this entire Earth.

15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

16 For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many.

When the LORD comes back he is personally going to cut down wicked people. Yea that's right sweet Jesus is coming back killing, that's why he a LION of the tribe of Judah his 1st coming his was a sweet little lamb and let mankind kill him. LORD ain't playing no more. lets skip (feel free to read that entire chapter on your own).

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

BOOM......

You will even be able to see the Lake of fire. He said all flesh will see it so this is happening on Earth because we can all agree aint no flesh going up to the 3rd heaven.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Huh so the Saints going to take the kingdom. Now I need find out where this kingdom going to be.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

I've repeatedly referred to "the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom" in my posts throughout this thread; so I have NO IDEA why you think I believe it will be located "somewhere else" and insist on arguing that point as though I have.

I AGREED with you that, of "24 elders" it is stated, "and they SHALL REIGN on the earth". (This doesn't mean that ALL saints who ENTER the MK age will "reign"... many will be SUBJECTS of said kingdom.)


But, to your point about the Daniel 7 text: Verse 22 corresponds with what is stated in Rev20:4a about "still-living" saints at that time (whereas v.20:4b is about the saints who will have been KILLED / BEHEADED during the SECOND HALF of the 7-yr / 70th Week period). IOW, these particular saints are never "caught up [/SNATCHED - G726]" (they have come to faith WITHIN the TRIB yrs, FOLLOWING "our Rapture")... the ones "still-living" will enter the MK age in their mortal bodies (the verse you keep quoting has nothing to do with this fact), never having lifted off the earth. THAT is what Daniel 7:22,25,27 speaks to (esp. re: Israel... in the Dan7 context).

So OF COURSE I believe it is located "UNDER the whole heaven" (Dan7:27--I never stated otherwise!!)


One should recognize also, what Paul had said regarding "resurrection" in 1Cor15:22-23, where it says, "[re: resurrection] BUT [conj] each IN HIS OWN ORDER / RANK." Meaning, there is an ORDER / RANK to it, there doesn't remain only ONE at ONE SINGULAR point in time (and this is confirmed by Paul's use of the "FUTURE TENSE" when he said in v.22, "...so IN CHRIST *shall [FUTURE TENSE]* all be made alive, BUT [conj] each in his own ORDER / RANK..." and then goes on to use first the "EPeita" word in v.23 [between two pertinent phrases] and then the "EITA" word in v.24a. I've posted about this section numerous times in many past threads--perhaps check it out).

And then when he writes later in this chpt, he says, "Behold, I SHEW you A MYSTERY..." and then goes on to say (specifically), "THIS corruptible" [i.e. "the DEAD IN Christ"] and "THIS mortal" [the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto" part of the "ONE BODY" / "Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"]--where the "THIS" is referring specifically [and only] to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [all believers "in this present age [singular]"], i.e. those "IN Christ" which is a NT designation. See again Eph1:20-23 "WHEN [as to its existence]".)

IOW, this passage is NOT talking about that which Daniel (OT saint) ALREADY WELL-KNEW (he was told "when" he would be "resurrected" / "to stand again" ON THE EARTH, Dan12:13 (in relation to the "end of the days" spoken on IN THAT CONTEXT--i.e. at the END of the SECOND HALF of the Trib: vv.1,6-7); and not what Job ALREADY WELL-KNEW, per Job19:25-27; and not what Martha ALREADY WELL-KNEW, per John 11:24 (same as the other aforementioned OT saints--as was promised TO THEM). Nope, this is Paul SHEWING "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" what was A MYSTERY (something as-yet undisclosed but that he was tasked by God with now [at the time written] disclosing--to, for and about a particular body of people).

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ I guess here might be a good place to drop this partial quote by C H Mackintosh (who was addressing the fact of same falling sway under a particular [incorrect] "teaching")...


"[...] yet not a syllable about the real position of the Church--its calling, its standing, its hopes, its privileges!

"And not a word about Israel's future! A complete ignoring, or at best a thorough alienation, of the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and David! The whole body of prophetic teaching subjected to a system of spiritualizing, falsely so called, whereby Israel is robbed of its proper portion [...]"

--C H Mackintosh

 

[Johnjunior]

I AGREED with you that, of "24 elders" it is stated, "and they SHALL REIGN on the earth". (This doesn't mean that ALL saints who ENTER the MK age will "reign"... many will be SUBJECTS of said kingdom.)

The subjects are the flesh and blood beings that will be here. In the fathers Kingdom we are all brothers and sisters because everyone will be immortal.

But, to your point about the Daniel 7 text: Verse 22 corresponds with what is stated in Rev20:4a about "still-living" saints at that time (whereas v.20:4b is about the saints who will have been KILLED / BEHEADED during the SECOND HALF of the 7-yr / 70th Week period). IOW, these particular saints are never "caught up

Saints that die during the great tribulation will make the first resurrection. Also the great tribulation is 3.5 years all over revelation and Daniel tells you 3.5 years. You're teaching but your doctrine is not in the bible. Sounds like you got that from some pastor with a fancy theology degree and that's not how GOD distribute his knowledge.

So OF COURSE I believe it is located "UNDER the whole heaven" (Dan7:27--I never stated otherwise!!)

If it's under heaven then it's on Earth. I'm rebuking the going to the 3rd heaven doctrine. So now it seems like you are changing your position because you seem to be agreeing with Blair.

Imma process everything else you say later because you post scripture literally with your interpretation right next to it. I can read just fine.

 

[tharkun]

The two resurections are resurrections of TYPE, not TIME. The first is to life, the second to death. The first will take place in 3 phases: 1st - Christ (the firstfruits), 2nd - those changed at His Coming (the harvest), 3rd - the sheep who remain at the end of the DotL (the gleanings).

 

[Blain]

The subjects are the flesh and blood beings that will be here. In the fathers Kingdom we are all brothers and sisters because everyone will be immortal.

Saints that die during the great tribulation will make the first resurrection. Also the great tribulation is 3.5 years all over revelation and Daniel tells you 3.5 years. You're teaching but your doctrine is not in the bible. Sounds like you got that from some pastor with a fancy theology degree and that's not how GOD distribute his knowledge.


If it's under heaven then it's on Earth. I'm rebuking the going to the 3rd heaven doctrine. So now it seems like you are changing your position because you seem to be agreeing with Blair.

Imma process everything else you say later because you post scripture literally with your interpretation right next to it. I can read just fine.

If you must know I don't have a particular stance on when the rapture is I think it more likely it will be a mid trib rapture but it also could be pre or post I don't concern myself when it is just to be ready
and as for the doctrine of third heaven we will not be able to agree on that because I and @TheDivineWatermark Divinewatermark already showed the evidence of that for the discussions sake I think it best we agree to disagree