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I'm not implying anything. I'm making a simple statement: the individual I posed the question to believes he is maintaining his salvation by means of his ongoing obedience.
Nor do I. But I advise others to disagree with your interpretations of scripture.
We don't just magically love our enemies after salvation. That takes time getting to KNOW our Savior......For most, that takes a lifetime of growing in His Grace and knowledge.......Be Honest now, would you take a bullet for your sworn enemy? The Honest Christians will say," I have some growing to do."
I am the "individual" who answered your question Post#349.
And I said no such thing.
B
Believer08
Guest
When people say “It’s not about what we do, but what Christ did”, this can come across to many as we have nothing at all to do to be saved. To get around this, it is argued that if it’s all about what He did then all would be saved since He died for all (John 3:16)
However, let’s see if that phrase “It’s not about what we do, but what Christ did” is a biblical one.
Titus 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
In those passages, we can see that we did nothing on our own without God to be saved. We did nothing in our own merit/righteousness or works to have Jesus come and save us by His grace.
So, the part “It’s not about what we do” with regard to developing a way of being saved is correct.
However, does this mean there is nothing we must do in order to be saved? Let’s see
Matthew 7:21 - " he who does the will of my father in heaven"
Matthew 7:24-27 - "whoever hears these sayings of mine and does them"
Mark 10:17 - "Good teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?"
Acts 2:37-38 - "what shall we do?"
Acts 9:6 - "Lord, what do you want me to do?"
Acts 16:30 - "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
As we can see, there are many cases of people asking what they must do…So, the idea behind “It’s not about what we do” must be referring to we did nothing to save ourselves by ourselves, nor did we circumvent a way apart from the Godhead to be saved.
From that aspect, “it’s not what we do” because we didn’t invent the way of Jesus to save us. He saved us of His own doing in what He did by going to the cross. We did not do that for us. And out of love we obeyed Him.
The part that says “it’s about what Christ did” is referring to Him giving His life for us.
So technically, that phrase is a biblical view, but some people in denominations use it to say they don’t have to do one thing to be saved or live for Christ since it’s not about us. And they are right concerning the latter, because it’s not about us. And it never has been. It’s about Christ.
It is not our works that makes us righteousness (Titus 3:5). It is faith in Christ that does by the power of the gospel (Rom. 3:22, Phil. 3:9, Rom. 1:16).
The works of Christ that save us is His death, burial, resurrection, and what He has commanded us to do—which those are God given commandments to be saved by His grace.
The term “works” is sometimes the equivalent of “obedience.” Elsewhere Jesus promised victory to those who “keep my works,” i.e., the works (commands) prescribed by him (Rev. 2:26)
His grace instructs us (Titus 2:11-12).
Gal. 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we also have access by faith into this grace…
Gal. 3:24 says justified by faith
How does get into this grace in Romans 5:2? They have to be justified by faith. But how is one be justified by faith? One must be baptized into Christ (Gal. 3:27), and that is where we have access by faith into this grace (Rom. 5:2).
However, let’s see if that phrase “It’s not about what we do, but what Christ did” is a biblical one.
Titus 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
In those passages, we can see that we did nothing on our own without God to be saved. We did nothing in our own merit/righteousness or works to have Jesus come and save us by His grace.
So, the part “It’s not about what we do” with regard to developing a way of being saved is correct.
However, does this mean there is nothing we must do in order to be saved? Let’s see
Matthew 7:21 - " he who does the will of my father in heaven"
Matthew 7:24-27 - "whoever hears these sayings of mine and does them"
Mark 10:17 - "Good teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?"
Acts 2:37-38 - "what shall we do?"
Acts 9:6 - "Lord, what do you want me to do?"
Acts 16:30 - "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
As we can see, there are many cases of people asking what they must do…So, the idea behind “It’s not about what we do” must be referring to we did nothing to save ourselves by ourselves, nor did we circumvent a way apart from the Godhead to be saved.
From that aspect, “it’s not what we do” because we didn’t invent the way of Jesus to save us. He saved us of His own doing in what He did by going to the cross. We did not do that for us. And out of love we obeyed Him.
The part that says “it’s about what Christ did” is referring to Him giving His life for us.
So technically, that phrase is a biblical view, but some people in denominations use it to say they don’t have to do one thing to be saved or live for Christ since it’s not about us. And they are right concerning the latter, because it’s not about us. And it never has been. It’s about Christ.
It is not our works that makes us righteousness (Titus 3:5). It is faith in Christ that does by the power of the gospel (Rom. 3:22, Phil. 3:9, Rom. 1:16).
The works of Christ that save us is His death, burial, resurrection, and what He has commanded us to do—which those are God given commandments to be saved by His grace.
The term “works” is sometimes the equivalent of “obedience.” Elsewhere Jesus promised victory to those who “keep my works,” i.e., the works (commands) prescribed by him (Rev. 2:26)
His grace instructs us (Titus 2:11-12).
Gal. 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we also have access by faith into this grace…
Gal. 3:24 says justified by faith
How does get into this grace in Romans 5:2? They have to be justified by faith. But how is one be justified by faith? One must be baptized into Christ (Gal. 3:27), and that is where we have access by faith into this grace (Rom. 5:2).
B
Believer08
Guest
Amen…
Lk. 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
To whom is the writer speaking to, to whom does this doctrine apply?
To the twelve tribes scattered abroad…
B
Believer08
Guest
They were Christians.
Otherwise, why would James be saying the following:
Jms. 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
(What is the perfect law of liberty?)
Jms. 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jms. 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
(What worthy name were they called?)
Jms. 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
(What truth would they have erred from?)
George Orwell experienced the dead hand of Communism in Spain. He based his book on that and on wartime Britain.
Your question puts the cart before the horse. Obedience is an expression of faith. It follows faith. It is a consequence of faith. By grace we are saved through faith, not through works. Works are done through the faith that saves. It is not obedience that secures salvation, but ongoing faith does. Salvation is living in a relationship of trust and fellowship with the Father and the Son. Salvation is not having done one or more things months or years ago.
A person who claims to believe some gospel propositions, but has stopped practising faith by obeying the Holy Spirit, although professing faith in Christ, is very likely to stop living by true faith that acts when called on, and instead to be living by profession only, and so cease to be being justified in the present by genuine present faith.
God dwells in the present. To live with Him is to live also in the present with Him. To be acting independently of Him in the present is not being saved by Him in the present, because if we are not cooperation with him in the present, we are still in bondage to the world, the flesh and the devil. in the present. Saved means delivered. How is someone who is obeying the world, the flesh and the devil
"being delivered/saved" in the present?
B
Believer08
Guest
Agreed, and having an ongoing faith is being obedient to Jesus who secures salvation based on following which would be obeying Him.
No, you advise disagreeing with Jesus in JN 13:35, "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
Amazing disgrace!
The NIV introduction to James thinks that it was written before Paul founded Gentile churches and wrote his epistles,
which is why it is addressed to Christian Jews living outside of Judea and does not mention the circumcision issue or meeting with Paul in ACTS 15.
You went all around the question without answering it. Do your actions testify to the work of God in you or contribute to your salvation? Are you keeping yourself in a state of grace or is God? Or both? Who is responsible for maintaining your salvation? And if someone sins, do they lose their position in Christ?
Well, hundreds of Bible scholars disagree with you, but I would be happy to agree that the term refers to BOTH/AND.