The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”
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John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
Here we have the gospel 101
1. Trust God and receive his gift of life. and you will never perish you will live forever.
2. remain in unbelief, and continue on in condemnation.
nothing else is required
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
Here we have the gospel 101
1. Trust God and receive his gift of life. and you will never perish you will live forever.
2. remain in unbelief, and continue on in condemnation.
nothing else is required
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As soon as you stated Butt! it is as if a billy goat butting into truth given by God
Sin is done with, said by Son at John 19:30, he fulfilled the Law of Moses and then gave up the flesh, to give us new life in his risen Life of Spirit and Truth of Father, then Holy Spirit will lead us new in love and mercy given us, if stand willingly, not having to, at least this I see presently and did not priorly. I was at work to be kept in, I was wrong, I now choose to do willingly, thank you.
Not having to, having to do anything to get in or stay in, is under a Law to get what is given.
How can a gift ever remain a gift if one has to do anything before or after belief? We see in the first testament no one could ever be perfect of themselves ever or even claiming God helps them. Sorry, Believe it is all God and none of self, once one choose belief to see and will not quit, even whenever, going through troubles too. I hope you see truth all Jesus nothing else thank you
And there is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood, the entire Old Testament was set up that way from day one when God sacrificed an animal for Adam and Eve and clothed them.
Jesus the final sacrifice, no more shed blood to be shed after that done work of son for us done once for us all Hebrews 10:10 to now get given new life in the risen Christ given us, no more flesh work needed to be done. New work the done work of Son permeating through us at least me in love and mercy to all as called, to me at least
Sin is done with, said by Son at John 19:30, he fulfilled the Law of Moses and then gave up the flesh, to give us new life in his risen Life of Spirit and Truth of Father, then Holy Spirit will lead us new in love and mercy given us, if stand willingly, not having to, at least this I see presently and did not priorly. I was at work to be kept in, I was wrong, I now choose to do willingly, thank you.
Not having to, having to do anything to get in or stay in, is under a Law to get what is given.
How can a gift ever remain a gift if one has to do anything before or after belief? We see in the first testament no one could ever be perfect of themselves ever or even claiming God helps them. Sorry, Believe it is all God and none of self, once one choose belief to see and will not quit, even whenever, going through troubles too. I hope you see truth all Jesus nothing else thank you
And there is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood, the entire Old Testament was set up that way from day one when God sacrificed an animal for Adam and Eve and clothed them.
Jesus the final sacrifice, no more shed blood to be shed after that done work of son for us done once for us all Hebrews 10:10 to now get given new life in the risen Christ given us, no more flesh work needed to be done. New work the done work of Son permeating through us at least me in love and mercy to all as called, to me at least
You: "I would hope give comfort to those who fear they are able to do something to lose salvation,or have Jesus cast them out."
Me: "The prodigal son was dead and lost there was no celebrating until the son made the effort to return.
There was no celebrating for the sheep or coin until and only if they were found.
Many things are lost and many things are never found, regardless of what or who they are."
You: "His father wept with joy and celebrated with a feast. Because, while the Prodigal chose to leave home, he was forever and always his father's son."
Me: "Why did the father celebrate? Because his son was now alive not because "he was forever and always his father's son".
And you see nothing contrary?
Me: "The prodigal son was dead and lost there was no celebrating until the son made the effort to return.
There was no celebrating for the sheep or coin until and only if they were found.
Many things are lost and many things are never found, regardless of what or who they are."
You: "His father wept with joy and celebrated with a feast. Because, while the Prodigal chose to leave home, he was forever and always his father's son."
Me: "Why did the father celebrate? Because his son was now alive not because "he was forever and always his father's son".
And you see nothing contrary?
"Butt! it is as if a billy goat butting into truth given by God"
Ditto, (except goad is the biblical word in ACTS 26:14 :^) and so I await your refutation rather than ignorance of the Sour 16 goads, because what you just said is on the topic of Christ's atonement rather than the need for perseverance.
Ditto, (except goad is the biblical word in ACTS 26:14 :^) and so I await your refutation rather than ignorance of the Sour 16 goads, because what you just said is on the topic of Christ's atonement rather than the need for perseverance.
I see we are looping back to post #1134, but once more I encourage you not to debate a straw man but rather to address what Scripture inspired by God says in the Sour 16. Jesus did not say that "The will of God is to forcibly prevent Christians from committing apostasy." Instead, 16+ times Jesus and NT Scripture commands Christians to keep on believing. Such commands are silly if apostasy is impossible.