The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”
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Just a couple of examples from the many here.
Every post where you claim we cannot use the word,lose.
Example:
GWH said:
I have experienced His love and learned His Word, which is why I know you should never use lose. but you refuse.
Because you didn't know about the teaching of Jesus in John 6:39.
"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day."
And that you use the term,the sour 16, to encapsulate a collection of scriptures you think sustain your salvation is impermanent argument.
At this point it becomes a simple choice. You believe and insist in arguing Jesus taught and died to deliver the news of impermanence related to a human choice to accept an elective called,salvation.
It isn't eternal. And people can choose to walk away from Jesus and choose to lose God's salvation by choice.
You preach that here.
The Bible says something different entirely. And as such,your perspective is not in scripture.
That's your choice to believe your way.
Every post where you claim we cannot use the word,lose.
Example:
GWH said:
I have experienced His love and learned His Word, which is why I know you should never use lose. but you refuse.
Because you didn't know about the teaching of Jesus in John 6:39.
"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day."
And that you use the term,the sour 16, to encapsulate a collection of scriptures you think sustain your salvation is impermanent argument.
At this point it becomes a simple choice. You believe and insist in arguing Jesus taught and died to deliver the news of impermanence related to a human choice to accept an elective called,salvation.
It isn't eternal. And people can choose to walk away from Jesus and choose to lose God's salvation by choice.
You preach that here.
The Bible says something different entirely. And as such,your perspective is not in scripture.
That's your choice to believe your way.
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Thanks for the quotes. Now I can reply by saying that I explained quite respectfully without arguing why I think you should use the term repudiate instead of lose if you want to discuss the issue with those who agree that one cannot accidentally lose salvation but can commit apostasy or else the sour 16 are pointless.
So yes, we are free to disagree with each other as well as with God.
(At least we agree on that :^)
So yes, we are free to disagree with each other as well as with God.
(At least we agree on that :^)
I find it fascinating that you have repeatedly insisted members cannot use the word,lose, as pertains to salvation.
And ignore the fact Jesus states he will lose none.
Meanwhile,you label 16 verses in scripture that you believe prove we are not secure in our salvation as,sour.
I don't take you as a serious respectful student of scripture. I read you as desiring to inject conflict and division.
I in good conscience cannot enable those sins.
I'll leave it to those with the patience to combat your purpose in your agenda.
And ignore the fact Jesus states he will lose none.
Meanwhile,you label 16 verses in scripture that you believe prove we are not secure in our salvation as,sour.
I don't take you as a serious respectful student of scripture. I read you as desiring to inject conflict and division.
I in good conscience cannot enable those sins.
I'll leave it to those with the patience to combat your purpose in your agenda.
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I also want to be clear to my fellow members,sisters and brothers here.
I respect debate. What I do not respect or find tolerable are those who would seek to play games with believers by playing word games with Gods word.
Yes,there are those who insist we must strive,work,to retain our salvation and the seal of holy Spirit.
OK. Let's discuss.
There are those who live and defend their belief that we shall not know if we ran the coarse and are eternally with God until we meet him at the judgement.
OK,let's discuss.
There is a school of thought that the believer is eternally redeemed of their sins,reborn in Christ, and are eternally irrevocably saved and sealed according to the testimony of the ministry of Jesus.
OK,let's discuss.
Playing word games with Gods word, Eisegesis, isn't Hermeneutics, Soteriology or, Eschatological discussion. It's just rude.
I respect debate. What I do not respect or find tolerable are those who would seek to play games with believers by playing word games with Gods word.
Yes,there are those who insist we must strive,work,to retain our salvation and the seal of holy Spirit.
OK. Let's discuss.
There are those who live and defend their belief that we shall not know if we ran the coarse and are eternally with God until we meet him at the judgement.
OK,let's discuss.
There is a school of thought that the believer is eternally redeemed of their sins,reborn in Christ, and are eternally irrevocably saved and sealed according to the testimony of the ministry of Jesus.
OK,let's discuss.
Playing word games with Gods word, Eisegesis, isn't Hermeneutics, Soteriology or, Eschatological discussion. It's just rude.
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Or we can look at the actual word used.
Jesus said, I should "lose" nothing.
the word used is apoleso
the word means to destroy, to perish, to LOSE, to kill, to slay to demolish etc etc.
Repudiate means to refuse to accept or refuse to be associated with.
sorry, But they are not equal in terms. Repudiate would be changing the meaning of the word. so you are in error my friend.
Jesus said, I should "lose" nothing.
the word used is apoleso
the word means to destroy, to perish, to LOSE, to kill, to slay to demolish etc etc.
Repudiate means to refuse to accept or refuse to be associated with.
sorry, But they are not equal in terms. Repudiate would be changing the meaning of the word. so you are in error my friend.
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It means as I stated in #1,184 that one should use the term repudiate instead of lose if he/she wants to discuss the issue with those who agree that a saint cannot accidentally "lose" salvation but that saints are free to commit apostasy or else the sour 16 Scriptures commanding perseverance are pointless.
(Thanks for asking rather than accusing :^)
(Thanks for asking rather than accusing :^)
Speaking in such absolutes (no one would even think...) typically shows an error in reasoning and is in fact a fallacious form of argument.
I sat with a man once who had been very active in ministry in his church for years and who could answer virtually any question I could ask him about Christ, about faith, etc. and who said he had believed, explained to me what he had believed, but no longer did and had recently walked away. He was very open to discussion but was resolute in his decision.
I don't and cannot know what happened with him after that, but nor can I say no one would even think... because I see in our Text that they can and I've experienced the above face-to-face.
I sat with a man once who had been very active in ministry in his church for years and who could answer virtually any question I could ask him about Christ, about faith, etc. and who said he had believed, explained to me what he had believed, but no longer did and had recently walked away. He was very open to discussion but was resolute in his decision.
I don't and cannot know what happened with him after that, but nor can I say no one would even think... because I see in our Text that they can and I've experienced the above face-to-face.
