ARE YOU PRE-TRIB, MID-TRIB, PRE-WRATH, OR POST-TRIB?
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Salvation is 'spiritual'. It is about being spiritually alive and not spiritually dead. Its "central and main benefit" is being with God forever instead of being tormented in a lake of fire.
Nowhere in the Bible are Christians promised 'escape' from 'tribulation' - 'escape' from the 'Wrath of God' - yes - 'escape' from 'tribulation' - no.
The verses you listed say nothing about the rapture with reference to 'tribulation'; however, they do speak of it with reference to the 'trump of God' and place it as being 'pre-wrath'. And, since the 'trump of God' is associated with the last of the Seven Trumpets in 1 Corinthians 15:52 - the rapture is therefore aligned with the 'last trump'. And, since the 'Trumpet' events are 'post-trib' by association in the descriptions of multiple verses/passages of scripture - the rapture is 'post-trib'.
The 'Trumpet' events are 'post-trib' and 'pre-wrath' without overlap.
The 'Resurrection & Rapture' takes place at/after the 'last trump' and before the 'Wrath of God'.
The 'Great Tribulation' (as we call it) ends right before the 'Trumpet' events begin to unfold - caused by the Two Witnesses by their prophecy/testimony.
Please see:
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Order_Of_Events.html
Nowhere in the Bible is the rapture actually described/indicated/stated to be before 'tribulation'.
Be careful to not conflate 'tribulation' and the 'Wrath of God' - they are two entirely different things.
I believe that the reason the Pre-Trib rapture is primarily taught in the churches is because, this is what is taught in the seminaries and even if the pastors later learn that this view may not true, they don't want to deviate from what they were taught because 1) they don't want to go against the seminary teaching, especially if they are serving in a denomination (such as Baptist, Calvary Chapel, etc.) who hold to this view. And 2) the pre-trib view is more acceptable to the people and they don't want to scare congregants away should the pastor change his view on this. People just don't want to believe that we will go through these horrible times talked about in Revelation. Most churches don't even teach the Book of Revelation, I believe for this very reason.
1st Thessalonians 4:17!!!!!!!!!: "then we which are alive & remain shall be caught up in the air to meet them........" this is BEFORE the 70th week of Daniel, known as the Great Tribulation. there it is, plain & simple!!!!!
No doubt there is a lot of truth in/to this - and, it is very unfortunate when a church fails to preach and teach the proper eschatology.
It is not "plain & simple" - it is not even there - it does not even exist...
You are assuming something that is not actually present in the verse.
You are associating two things with each other that the Bible does not.
The 70th week of Daniel ended in 34 A.D. - and, had/has nothing to do with any End Times 'Great Tribulation' [period].
So, if you believe that the rapture happens at the sounding of the 7th trumpet judgment (or last trumpet), then this means that the Believers must go through the all the trumpet judgments. This would then mean that God broke His many promises to His children that we would saved from His wrath to come, which begins at the opening of the 6th seal. Knowing all this, do you still hold to this view that we will be raptured at the sounding of the last trumpet (or 7th trumpet) in Rev 11:15?
In the context of all that is written in post #29, this sentence is in error in two places - the part before the comma, and the part after it.
The 'trumpet judgments' are not part of the 'Wrath of God'.
What were all the christians in these 2000 years saved from? Nothing? Sin and hell is the answer
Part before the comma:
God's promises that His children will escape His wrath to come, or the Day of the Lord: Here are a few verses to support this, but there are many others:
1 Thes 5:9, "For God has not destined us (Believers) for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through out Lord Jesus Christ."
Rev 3:10, "Because you (Believers) have kept the word of My perserverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testingn (God's wrath)."
Romans 5:9, "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from th e wrath of God through Him."
Part after the comma:
Wouldn't you agree the the Wrath of God begins at the opening of the 6th seal per Rev 6:12-17. The actual people going through this even say so, when they say in Rev 6:17, "for the great day of Their wrath (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) has come." The next events to happen after this are the seven trumpet judgments in Rev 8.
Personally, since "Eschatology is just a religious word meaning: "We have no idea what's gonna happen" I don't give any of it a second thought. He'll be back to wrap things up whenever it's time, and all our "Theological opinions" don't mean SPIT.
Simple as that.
Not so simple. If the Lord meant for it to be simple, He would not have given John the Revelation which goes into detail about the last days on what will happen and in the order in which these events will take place.
you crossed meanings. if a so called Christian believes he's going to be here at trib time, you aren't saved from anything. there's no teaching in the Bible that says Christians will be suffering in the trib.
Yes there is. For example Rev 6:9, "And when He broke the fifth seal, I saw under the altar (in Heaven) the souls of those who had been slain (during the Tribulation period), because of the Word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained."
after the rapture, there will be 1 more chance to be saved. after the rapture is the trib period. during that time, people will be killed but it's not people who were Christians before the rapture.
I understand that this is your view, and I hope you are right, but I don't see support in Scripture for it. Sorry.
Made me laugh.. loved this thanks Bob I agree. To the Op.. Seems to me as I read from Gen to Rev that man never seems to get it right so I take step back and .. hmm gonna just trust Him. He went to make me place and if it was not so He would have said it. He never lied.. everything He said He did so He said He will come back for me so where He is I will be. Paul said some things that.. bring comfort. I can't help but think about A Keith Green song. Christ talking .. "And I hear you say that I'm coming back soon But you act like I'll never return"
You know OP many here... that I might disagree on when it comes to Caught up (Rapture) but they have also done a very deep study of this and it would be wise to listen to them.