Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[TMS]

It said man became a living soul
It does not say God put a soul into us.
.

The verses I'm asking you to show is that God put a soul into us.

God breathed into us life.
Gave us the Spirit of life and when you look up the original words it is .. pneuma.

Breath

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

 

[sawdust]

It said man became a living soul
It does not say God put a soul into us.
.

The verses I'm asking you to show is that God put a soul into us.

God breathed into us life.
Gave us the Spirit of life and when you look up the original words it is .. pneuma.

Breath

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

He didn't breathe Himself into Adam.

 

[GWH]

Can't help thinking you're in on the trolling GWH, you keep feeding the troll/trolls. I will be requesting a deletion and will explain why.

If you think I troll, then you must prefer monologue, so I don't know why you are on CC.
I am confident your request will be denied, because all I do is dialogue respectfully.
Happy trails! :^)

 

[LifelongLearner]

Maybe my comments are a little too speculative for you at times, however quite a few people seem to like me being here on CC. Also, i enjoy discussion involving a wide range of opinions, not try to control or derail discussion like the trolls on MY post you're so helpful to. Don't even try to say i'm trying to control them, just don't want them turning my posts into their echo chamber.

Pretty sure the CC team are few and do their best with limited resources, very possible there isn't much they can do either. However, i do think it's an important issue to raise with them, information about such goings on is useful for them too.

 

[TMS]

He didn't breathe Himself into Adam.

He breathed life into us. God gave us life.
Not a soul. We became a living soul.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The opposite of creation..

The word for spirit is again breath..

What is your definition of a soul? Not according to tradition or legend. But according to the bible.

 

[GWH]

Maybe my comments are a little too speculative for you at times, however quite a few people seem to like me being here on CC. Also, i enjoy discussion involving a wide range of opinions, not try to control or derail discussion like the trolls on MY post you're so helpful to. Don't even try to say i'm trying to control them, just don't want them turning my posts into their echo chamber.

Pretty sure the CC team are few and do their best with limited resources, very possible there isn't much they can do either. However, i do think it's an important issue to raise with them, information about such goings on is useful for them too.

We may disagree at times, but I just think we should live up to our monikers as we ignore trolling.

Your OP asks whether we can exercise MFW, and my understanding of the biblical answer is "yes",
from DT 30:19 to MT 23:37 to 1TM 2:3-4 to 2PT 3:9.

You disagree based on being taught Calvinism, which at one point I thought you said you wanted to move away from,
so I am trying to show Scripture's more excellent loving way (1CR 12:31-14:1, GL 5:6&22-23, 1JN 4:7-8).

 

[sawdust]

He breathed life into us. God gave us life.
Not a soul. We became a living soul.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The opposite of creation..

The word for spirit is again breath..

What is your definition of a soul? Not according to tradition or legend. But according to the bible.

Yes life, human life which is in the soul and spiritual life which is in the spirit. Adam's body already had biological life. God breathed in the breath of lives. God did not simply breathe air into Adam like some form of resuscitation.

We are souls. It is what makes us human. It is the soul that is created in the image and likeness of God. The function of the soul is, at it's essence, consciousness which is why animals also have soul but their soul is not created in God's image. The function of the human soul is consciousness of self and others, thinking in all it's forms, emotion, volition and conscience.

A living soul is a breathing person, spirit, soul and body.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Ah! i've certainly moved away from strict Calvinism, however, my thoughts about free will being impossible, is based on observations in everyday life. It long precedes my spiritual beliefs.

Understandable assumption but think it's best to investigate a little further before making assumptions. You probably know that already, i do say things like it seems/appears etc, an awful lot

 

[sawdust]

We became a living soul.

And you can't become a living soul without a soul.

 

[GWH]

Ah! i've certainly moved away from strict Calvinism, however, my thoughts about free will being impossible, is based on observations in everyday life. It long precedes my spiritual beliefs.

Understandable assumption but think it's best to investigate a little further before making assumptions. You probably know that already, i do say things like it seems/appears etc, an awful lot

The strict part of Calvinism is the TULIP deterministic dogma, which I wonder whether you have moved away from,
although I have admitted that deterministic cause and effect is what we observe in physics and would explain how God
could know the future if humans were robotic.

I think the spiritual problem is caused by insisting that volition must be 100% uninfluenced in order to be sufficiently free for moral accountability to be real, when what is necessary for MFW/volition and thus just condemnation per GW is only for God to enable souls to have the ability to ask/seek/knock for salvation--or not (IOW, for strict TULIP to be false).

What observations would cause one to disagree with this view?

 

[Jimbone]

With human babies their status changes from a fetus to a newborn. They weren't dead prior to being born.

False equivalency, and in no way at all "proves" or even backs up your point here.
We are born with a dead spirit, cut off from God. That is our nature because we are all born to the flesh, or born of Adam. After Adam there was only one other man that was born with that Spirit alive and connected to the Father. It was Jesus and He was not born of Adam, but He was born of what.....? That's right the Spirit! See how this works? See how we CANNOT be born with spirits because our fathers were all born this way, dead and disconnected, this is another reason we all must be "born again" to enter the kingdom. We are born completely blind and cut off, every single one of us. This is why we have to be told by the words of our Creator and Savior that we are broken in this way. Because we are born without this spirit there is not and could not be any way for us to even know what the problem is, neverminded correcting it.

I don't even know exactly what point you're trying to make here, that we are born with a bad spirit at first, but being born again is God making that spirit better or replacing it with a new one, but this is just not correct. Also, if you have a problem with "being born with a dead spirit", not being a Biblical concept one can logically draw from scripture I would LOVE to see where you are "clearly" pulling this "good/bad spirit made better/replaced" concept you seem to be putting forth.

 

[LifelongLearner]

The strict part of Calvinism is the TULIP deterministic dogma, which I wonder whether you have moved away from,
although I have admitted that deterministic cause and effect is what we observe in physics and would explain how God
could know the future if humans were robotic.

I think the spiritual problem is caused by insisting that volition must be 100% uninfluenced in order to be sufficiently free for moral accountability to be real, when what is necessary for MFW/volition and thus just condemnation per GW is only for God to enable souls to have the ability to ask/seek/knock for salvation--or not (IOW, for strict TULIP to be false).

What observations would cause one to disagree with this view?

Sorry GWH but your extrapolations are wrong, even prejudiced and not representative of what i say/said. Nor have i suggested volition must be 100% uninfluenced, that's your interpretation of something which is actually an impossibility to me.
Think about that fact please! You and the proven trolls demand i explain/defend something i never said. All you and they need to do is check back through my comments, which is a lot easier than my needing to check the vast majority of pages on MY post, because so much tripe/inaccuracies has been posted by you and the trolls.
It's very understandable i'm at the totally fed up with the nonsense/spite stage.

 

[LifelongLearner]

False equivalency, and in no way at all "proves" or even backs up your point here.
We are born with a dead spirit, cut off from God. That is our nature because we are all born to the flesh, or born of Adam. After Adam there was only one other man that was born with that Spirit alive and connected to the Father. It was Jesus and He was not born of Adam, but He was born of what.....? That's right the Spirit! See how this works? See how we CANNOT be born with spirits because our fathers were all born this way, dead and disconnected, this is another reason we all must be "born again" to enter the kingdom. We are born completely blind and cut off, every single one of us. This is why we have to be told by the words of our Creator and Savior that we are broken in this way. Because we are born without this spirit there is not and could not be any way for us to even know what the problem is, neverminded correcting it.

I don't even know exactly what point you're trying to make here, that we are born with a bad spirit at first, but being born again is God making that spirit better or replacing it with a new one, but this is just not correct. Also, if you have a problem with "being born with a dead spirit", not being a Biblical concept one can logically draw from scripture I would LOVE to see where you are "clearly" pulling this "good/bad spirit made better/replaced" concept you seem to be putting forth.

Fine! We disagree but maybe, just maybe it's unreasonable, even daft of you to think i, as one person, should reply to your possibly malicious comments now too.
Give me strength, or even just a bit more Christianity in evidence would do.

 

[Kainos]

Boundless free will would call for us to have the power to act without the constraint of fate. And none of us are free from reaping what we sow. If that were God's designation for free will, the birds of the air which neither reap or sow, would be less restrained than mankind.

With that being understood, I can only conclude that free will equates to us having enough scope in our reasoning to distinguish right from wrong.

If I ain't morally accountable and aren't expected to accept responsibility for my actions, I don't need no instruction or correction. That sounds like a utopia for the self willed.

 

[GWH]

Sorry GWH but your extrapolations are wrong, even prejudiced and not representative of what i say/said. Nor have i suggested volition must be 100% uninfluenced, that's your interpretation of something which is actually an impossibility to me.
Think about that fact please! You and the proven trolls demand i explain/defend something i never said. All you and they need to do is check back through my comments, which is a lot easier than my needing to check the vast majority of pages on MY post, because so much tripe/inaccuracies has been posted by you and the trolls.
It's very understandable i'm at the totally fed up with the nonsense/spite stage.

When someone misunderstands, the good/right thing to do is explain what YOU believe,
not complain about what THEY believe. At least that is what I do.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Boundless free will would call for us to have the power to act without the constraint of fate. And none of us are free from reaping what we sow. If that were God's designation for free will, the birds of the air which neither reap or sow, would be less restrained than mankind.

With that being understood, I can only conclude that free will equates to us having enough scope in our reasoning to distinguish right from wrong.

If I ain't morally accountable and aren't expected to accept responsibility for my actions, I don't need no instruction or correction. That sounds like a utopia for the self willed.

Know for sure you aren't being malicious but i actually explained what you say in your comment, in one i posted to GWH in the early hours.
Problem is friend, then the definite trolls, possibles and just others, post lots of comments so my answers sort of disappear again. The problem is there has been so much troll activity, i'm playing constant whack-a-mole on this thread, which is why i would like it to be deleted. It would be useful if enough of the iffy comments and my replies are easy to find as evidence of why deletion would be wise.

 

[LifelongLearner]

When someone misunderstands, the good/right thing to do is explain what YOU believe,
not complain about what THEY believe. At least that is what I do.

What do you not understand about me merely being one person, while you and trolls you feed are many, do you not understand? You pick and choose what you reply to yet expect me to answer so many?
Which i have done many times over throughout this post which and your friends obscure, the post needs deletion.

 

[GWH]

What do you not understand about me merely being one person, while you and trolls you feed are many, do you not understand? You pick and choose what you reply to yet expect me to answer so many?
Which i have done many times over throughout this post which and your friends obscure, the post needs deletion.

Well, apparently I made wrong extrapolations that upset you by saying something in this post:

[[The strict part of Calvinism is the TULIP deterministic dogma, which I wonder whether you have moved away from,
although I have admitted that deterministic cause and effect is what we observe in physics and would explain how God
could know the future if humans were robotic. I think the spiritual problem is caused by insisting that volition must be 100% uninfluenced in order to be sufficiently free for moral accountability to be real, when what is necessary for MFW/volition and thus just condemnation per GW is only for God to enable souls to have the ability to ask/seek/knock for salvation--or not (IOW, for strict TULIP to be false).]]

However, I still don't know what was wrong because you did not say what is right.

 

[Kainos]

Know for sure you aren't being malicious but i actually explained what you say in your comment, in one i posted to GWH in the early hours.
Problem is friend, then the definite trolls, possibles and just others, post lots of comments so my answers sort of disappear again. The problem is there has been so much troll activity, i'm playing constant whack-a-mole on this thread, which is why i would like it to be deleted. It would be useful if enough of the iffy comments and my replies are easy to find as evidence of why deletion would be wise.

I haven't read every post on this thread, but aside from the odd dismissive response, I've not seen anything indicative of trolling. Just some vehement discussion.

Some people will argue their case to breaking point. Might not be for you, but I wouldn't take it personally.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Can we NOT exercise free will?
Not really, because not exercising FW is exercising FW not to exercise FW.
(Capice ? :^)

Reading from that post by GWH on gives some idea why i've just had it with the stupidity on this post. It's happened so many times throughout this post, quietens down a little when i kick a couple of posteriors, then they crawl out again.