Will The Actual Calvinists Here Please Stand Up?
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Just as Sovereign God decrees.
We are born with a fallen nature by God's design.
Which is why the teaching,everyone is saved,or will,can be, is disproven by that creation fact.
If God wanted all to be saved he would not first create all to be fallen.
There of course is a teaching most likely that insists God doesn't create people with fallen natures.
That's not true. Else,God is not all he says he is.
Salvation is for whosoever will. Whosoever believes.....After we believe we are predestined to be conformed to His image. Predestined to the adoption. Not one person is predestined to be saved. After salvation we are predestined and elected to and for MANY things.
Predestination and election are for believers only. Whosoever believes(for all), will be included in His predesigned plan for ALL believers.
Just as Sovereign God decrees.
We are born with a fallen nature by God's design.
Which is why the teaching,everyone is saved,or will,can be, is disproven by that creation fact.
If God wanted all to be saved he would not first create all to be fallen.
There of course is a teaching most likely that insists God doesn't create people with fallen natures.
That's not true. Else,God is not all he says he is.
PR 15:31-33: Whoever heeds life-giving correction... the one who heeds correction... humility comes before honor."
IOW, choose life per DT 30:19 and be willing per MT 23:37. Nothing about a fallen nature preventing heeding/willing.
Correct. Hence the need to harmonize apparent contradiction.
Why do you say we are predestined after we believe?
Ephesians 1:1-6 tells us it is just the opposite! What am I missing here?
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
Something that always gets brought up with the calvies......Who is HE speaking to? BELIEVERS.
BELIEVERS Are Predestined To be in Him. Believers are predestined To be holy and blameless. Believers are predestined to the adoption.
Unbelievers have NONE of these blessings. Unbelievers Have the GOSPEL......John 3:16 Acts 16:31.
I prefer believer. Although brother, son of God, and saint are fine, too. Most people just use my first name.
We must understand, believing is the de facto reality for man: they were created to believe. Unbelief is the opposite of belief. You will not find "non-believer" in the scriptures: man either believes God or resists Him.
There are only two sons in creation: one is Adam born to sin the other is Christ, a life-giving Spirit. Through rebellion, man may resist God. Such a man is an unbeliever. If man let's the Spirit of God work in His life he becomes a believer.
Furthermore, belief is active, not passive. The fruit of belief or unbelief is always seen in the activity of a man.
This is merely an outline but it captures the gist.
Exactly
You won’t find many “Calvinists” on CC, but there’s plenty of us who share his view on soteriology.
Similarly, you won’t find many “Arminians” on CC, though many share his soteriology.
So, it isn't God's will that you murder but that you do because you can't help yourself, you can only do good if God wills that you do.
Just trying to follow the reasoning.
Your commentary ignited a thought relative to what you've affectionately referred to as 'calvies' have as their strongest argument, because it's too easy to confuse the order. The verse that 'no one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him (John 6:44)." Later in that chapter, 21 verses later, in John 6:65, Jesus says, "This is why I said that...(my paraphrase of 65a which refers back to v.44)." which is preceded by His claim in v.65, "...there are some of you who do not believe."
"calvies" assert that no one believes unless the Father draw him to Jesus, and refuse to even consider the possibility that the Father draws no one that does not believe.
V.66 illustrates, "From that time on many of His disciples turn back and no longer walked with Him," and
V.67 Jesus asks the Twelve, "Do you want to leave too?" and
v.68-9 illustrates Simon Peter confessing his faith, then
V.70 Jesus effectively says (my paraphrase), "I know, I chose you (because I know you...that is, I know you all...even the one who does not believe."
It shows what I was saying all along...that the threat of consequences works regardless of whether one is saved or not.
My high school English teacher would tell us that many are confused when they lose sight of the antecedent of the pronoun.
So who is the "us" refer to in verses 3,4,5,6 of Ephesians 1:1-6?
The threat of consequences works with everyone???
That is what you were "saying all along"?
Is this not common knowledge? Even children and animals understand this.