GOD WANTS EVERYONE TO BE SAVED

[Beckworth]

If God wants everybody to be saved, then everybody would be saved

No scripture supports this statement. Matt. 23:37, Jesus wanted to save the people in Jerusalem; He said He would have gathered them under his wing like a mother hen gathers her chicks, BUT THEY WERE UNWILLING. Just thus one scripture proves that what you are saying is false. Plus, I gave at least 11 scriptures in this post that prove God “is not willing that any should perish”

 

[Beckworth]

No scripture supports this statement. Matt. 23:37, Jesus wanted to save the people in Jerusalem; He said He would have gathered them under his wing like a mother hen gathers her chicks, BUT THEY WERE UNWILLING. Just this one scripture proves that what you are saying is false. Plus, I gave at least 11 scriptures in this post that prove God “is not willing that any should perish”

, but men who are “unwilling” WILL perish, because we all have free will to obey or not. If men did not have free will then we cannot choose to OBEY God. And if we can choose to obey, then we can choose to disobey.

I John 2:2 the Holy Spirit says that Jesus died for the WHOLE WORLD. The Bible does not teach that Jesus died for just a select few. That is the teaching of MEN—not God.

 

[Blain]

, but men who are “unwilling” WILL perish, because we all have free will to obey or not. If men did not have free will then we cannot choose to OBEY God. And if we can choose to obey, then we can choose to disobey.

I John 2:2 the Holy Spirit says that Jesus died for the WHOLE WORLD. The Bible does not teach that Jesus died for just a select few. That is the teaching of MEN—not God.

I don't know what they are called but there are those who subscribe to the theology of no free will and selected salvation aka election, trying to convince them is nearly impossible if possible at all and all you have posted more than proves otherwise but they will not hear of it

 

[Beckworth]

I don't know what they are called but there are those who subscribe to the theology of no free will and selected salvation aka election, trying to convince them is nearly impossible if possible at all and all you have posted more than proves otherwise but they will not hear of it

I wish I could say you are wrong, but I can’t. Sadly, You are exactly right. But we can still try…

 

[PennEd]

LOT of Scripture to splain away!
I'm more than good with God's Sovereign Election over men choosing Him.
Can't be dead on the one hand, and choosing ANYTHING on the other.


John 15:16 ESV / 30 helpful votes
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 ESV
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
Romans 8:29 ESV
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
John 6:44 ESV
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Acts 13:48 ESV
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
Ephesians 2:10 ESV
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 6:37 ESV
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Jeremiah 1:5 ESV
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:1 ESV
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Ephesians 1:11 ESV
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Romans 8:28 ESV
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
John 6:65 ESV
And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
Romans 3:11 ESV
No one understands; no one seeks for God.
John 1:13 ESV
Who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Isaiah 46:10 ESV
Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
Psalm 65:4 ESV
Blessed is the one you choose and bring near, to dwell in your courts! We shall be satisfied with the goodness of your house, the holiness of your temple!
Ephesians 1:4-5 ESV
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Romans 9:18 ESV
So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
Romans 8:1-39 ESV
Deuteronomy 7:6 ESV
“For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
Numbers 23:19 ESV
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?
1 Corinthians 2:14 ESV
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
John 17:9 ESV
I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.
John 17:2 ESV
Since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him.
John 6:70 ESV
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”
Deuteronomy 7:7 ESV
It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples,
1 John 5:19
We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
1 Peter 1:1-2 ESV
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
Ephesians 1:3-4 ESV
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Galatians 1:15 ESV
But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,
Romans 9:22 ESV
What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Romans 9:13 ESV
As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated".

 

[homwardbound]

If God wants everybody to be saved, then everybody would be saved

Except, for free choice to choose, not all will be saved, (those that do not willingly choose God) as all will know they got the same choice to choose God over everything else or they put themselves in the everlasting fire of evil, not of good. Ezekiel 18, has much to say to us all, me at least. We chose, choose evil not God thank you we can choose God in belief to see love and mercy too or not thanks. And then do it willingly, not having to!

 

[Blain]

LOT of Scripture to splain away!
I'm more than good with God's Sovereign Election over men choosing Him.
Can't be dead on the one hand, and choosing ANYTHING on the other.


John 15:16 ESV / 30 helpful votes
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 ESV
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
Romans 8:29 ESV
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
John 6:44 ESV
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Acts 13:48 ESV
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
Ephesians 2:10 ESV
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 6:37 ESV
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Jeremiah 1:5 ESV
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:1 ESV
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Ephesians 1:11 ESV
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Romans 8:28 ESV
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
John 6:65 ESV
And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
Romans 3:11 ESV
No one understands; no one seeks for God.
John 1:13 ESV
Who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Isaiah 46:10 ESV
Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
Psalm 65:4 ESV
Blessed is the one you choose and bring near, to dwell in your courts! We shall be satisfied with the goodness of your house, the holiness of your temple!
Ephesians 1:4-5 ESV
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Romans 9:18 ESV
So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
Romans 8:1-39 ESV
Deuteronomy 7:6 ESV
“For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
Numbers 23:19 ESV
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?
1 Corinthians 2:14 ESV
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
John 17:9 ESV
I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.
John 17:2 ESV
Since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him.
John 6:70 ESV
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”
Deuteronomy 7:7 ESV
It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples,
1 John 5:19
We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
1 Peter 1:1-2 ESV
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
Ephesians 1:3-4 ESV
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Galatians 1:15 ESV
But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,
Romans 9:22 ESV
What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Romans 9:13 ESV
As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated".

yes he draws us but it also said this If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved it says if you key word you. you can put together lots of random scriptures but it only takes one to show that we have a choice btw this one here speaks volume Acts 16:31 ESV — And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household it says to believe that is important to note believe and you will be saved believing is a verb an action which is a matter of choice

 

[PennEd]

yes he draws us but it also said this If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved it says if you key word you. you can put together lots of random scriptures but it only takes one to show that we have a choice btw this one here speaks volume Acts 16:31 ESV — And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household it says to believe that is important to note believe and you will be saved believing is a verb an action which is a matter of choice

I don't disagree with that, but I don't see how it negates the mountain of Scripture that says God chooses us.

If I'm choosing Him, before He quickens me, I have reason to boast to those that don't. In essence I claim I'm smarter to understand the Word, or a more moral person than they, and want to give up my sin because I'm a really good guy.

Read this carefully Blain.
It was our very NATURE to sin, AND want to sin. GOD had to do a work in us BEFORE we could accept Him.

Ephesians 2
2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

 

[Magenta]

I don't know what they are called but there are those who subscribe to the theology of no free will and selected salvation aka election, trying to convince them is nearly impossible if possible at all and all you have posted more than proves otherwise but they will not hear of it

Or you can just believe what Scripture says... that the natural man is taken captive to the will of the devil, that the whole world is under the influence of the evil one, Inherently hostile in their minds toward God, slaves to sin, lovers of darkness, and suppressing the truth in unrighteousnes... children of wrath, condemned already... and that the heart of the natural man is wicked beyond cure... Since it is with the heart that one believes it is 100% doubtful that any such heart will choose God. It is articulated in a number of ways that a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit. No one can come to God unless he is drawn, and those given to Jesus will come.

 

[Magenta]

Faith comes by hearing ... do you know Jesus said that some cannot hear. It is His sheep who hear. He said some do not hear because they do not belong to God.

Jesus' words in John 6 verse 45b and John 6 verse 39b

 

[GWH]

LOT of Scripture to splain away!
I'm more than good with God's Sovereign Election over men choosing Him.
Can't be dead on the one hand, and choosing ANYTHING on the other.


John 15:16 ESV / 30 helpful votes
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 ESV
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
Romans 8:29 ESV
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
John 6:44 ESV
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Acts 13:48 ESV
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
Ephesians 2:10 ESV
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 6:37 ESV
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Jeremiah 1:5 ESV
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:1 ESV
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Ephesians 1:11 ESV
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Romans 8:28 ESV
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
John 6:65 ESV
And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
Romans 3:11 ESV
No one understands; no one seeks for God.
John 1:13 ESV
Who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Isaiah 46:10 ESV
Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
Psalm 65:4 ESV
Blessed is the one you choose and bring near, to dwell in your courts! We shall be satisfied with the goodness of your house, the holiness of your temple!
Ephesians 1:4-5 ESV
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Romans 9:18 ESV
So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
Romans 8:1-39 ESV
Deuteronomy 7:6 ESV
“For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
Numbers 23:19 ESV
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?
1 Corinthians 2:14 ESV
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
John 17:9 ESV
I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.
John 17:2 ESV
Since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him.
John 6:70 ESV
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”
Deuteronomy 7:7 ESV
It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples,
1 John 5:19
We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
1 Peter 1:1-2 ESV
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
Ephesians 1:3-4 ESV
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Galatians 1:15 ESV
But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,
Romans 9:22 ESV
What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Romans 9:13 ESV
As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated".

Thanks for the Scriptures you think support TULIP,
but a proper hermeneutic should also cite Scriptures supporting MFW--
and propose an interpretation that harmonizes them.

 

[Blain]

I don't disagree with that, but I don't see how it negates the mountain of Scripture that says God chooses us.

If I'm choosing Him, before He quickens me, I have reason to boast to those that don't. In essence I claim I'm smarter to understand the Word, or a more moral person than they, and want to give up my sin because I'm a really good guy.

Read this carefully Blain.
It was our very NATURE to sin, AND want to sin. GOD had to do a work in us BEFORE we could accept Him.

Ephesians 2
2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

He does quicken us first yes otherwise in our sinful nature we never would choose him I think maybe I misunderstood

 

[Blain]

Or you can just believe what Scripture says... that the natural man is taken captive to the will of the devil, that the whole world is under the influence of the evil one, Inherently hostile in their minds toward God, slaves to sin, lovers of darkness, and suppressing the truth in unrighteousnes... children of wrath, condemned already... and that the heart of the natural man is wicked beyond cure... Since it is with the heart that one believes it is 100% doubtful that any such heart will choose God. It is articulated in a number of ways that a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit. No one can come to God unless he is drawn, and those given to Jesus will come.

in our natural state it requires he draws us to him first but to say that there is not choice at all would make us robots. when I was saved I could tell you all the basics of slavation but even then I knew I wasn't saved it wasn't until I surrendered my life to him to him that I was saved that is an active choice anyone cango to church read and quote the bible pray do good works but a relationship requires a two way street here he draws us or quickens us and we in turn surrender to his dr5awing without surrendering our hearts there is no salvation without him drawing us first there is no surrender however the issue of selected salvation is another matter he desires that all come to Christ he died for the whole world for he so loved the world people who subscribe to election or selected salvation disregard this

here is what I believe in our natural state there is no desire to be saved he needs to draw or quicken us first but there is a choice to surrender to that quickening and only in that surrender do we recieve salvation because it is like any other relationship it takes two to tangle and I beleive that desires that all come to Christ not a selected few or selected some he is a father after all any parent with that maturnal instact would never love one child and save them while condemning another that would be considered abuse

 

[Cameron143]

in our natural state it requires he draws us to him first but to say that there is not choice at all would make us robots. when I was saved I could tell you all the basics of slavation but even then I knew I wasn't saved it wasn't until I surrendered my life to him to him that I was saved that is an active choice anyone cango to church read and quote the bible pray do good works but a relationship requires a two way street here he draws us or quickens us and we in turn surrender to his dr5awing without surrendering our hearts there is no salvation without him drawing us first there is no surrender however the issue of selected salvation is another matter he desires that all come to Christ he died for the whole world for he so loved the world people who subscribe to election or selected salvation disregard this

here is what I believe in our natural state there is no desire to be saved he needs to draw or quicken us first but there is a choice to surrender to that quickening and only in that surrender do we recieve salvation because it is like any other relationship it takes two to tangle and I beleive that desires that all come to Christ not a selected few or selected some he is a father after all any parent with that maturnal instact would never love one child and save them while condemning another that would be considered abuse

What do you believe it means to be quickened? What actually happens?

 

[Magenta]

What do you believe it means to be quickened? What actually happens?

Raised to new Life In Christ... well yes then of course we are set free. We were made alive in Christ when we were yet dead in our trespasses and sins ... people see those words but they don't know what they mean really. The uncircumcised heart is not capable of loving God. Just like the natural man is not capable of choosing to believe that which he hears as foolishness. It doesn't mean he doesn't have a choice, as so many erroneously claim because they don't understand what we're saying... it means he chooses out of his nature.

 

[Blain]

What do you believe it means to be quickened? What actually happens?

you get a desire to be saved a desire to know God this is him drawing us to him unless I am mistaken isn't that what being quickened is?

 

[Cameron143]

you get a desire to be saved a desire to know God this is him drawing us to him unless I am mistaken isn't that what being quickened is?

To be quickened has a number of meanings, and can mean as you suggest. But in the context of Ephesians 2:1, it seems to suggest the impartation of life. From the verse, those who were quickened were formerly dead in their trespasses and sins.

 

[Mem]

in our natural state it requires he draws us to him first but to say that there is not choice at all would make us robots. when I was saved I could tell you all the basics of slavation but even then I knew I wasn't saved it wasn't until I surrendered my life to him to him that I was saved that is an active choice anyone cango to church read and quote the bible pray do good works but a relationship requires a two way street here he draws us or quickens us and we in turn surrender to his dr5awing without surrendering our hearts there is no salvation without him drawing us first there is no surrender however the issue of selected salvation is another matter he desires that all come to Christ he died for the whole world for he so loved the world people who subscribe to election or selected salvation disregard this

here is what I believe in our natural state there is no desire to be saved he needs to draw or quicken us first but there is a choice to surrender to that quickening and only in that surrender do we recieve salvation because it is like any other relationship it takes two to tangle and I beleive that desires that all come to Christ not a selected few or selected some he is a father after all any parent with that maturnal instact would never love one child and save them while condemning another that would be considered abuse

Just as how, in Adam, death entered into the world by sin, his disobedience, so also, life is made available through the obedience of Christ, the second Adam. Jesus came to deliver those who in bondage to sin, and therefore death. He accomplished this by dying even though He is sinless, and He took the sins of the world with Him to the grave and rose again because death has no legal hold on Him. And, being the firstborn of the dead, so also all, the entire world, will also be resurrected. Some will be raised to everlasting life and some to eternal destruction, the second death (Jesus did not save anyone from that). The determining factor of which resurrection an individual participates is not determined by their actions, what they did or did not do (because all the sins of the world have been atoned for in Christ) so, what will it be? It will be what it has always been, the one thing that God counts as any man's righteousness.

So, if what Adam took away the freedom to choose from all, then how much more that what Christ did would restore the freedom to choose for all?

 

[Blain]

To be quickened has a number of meanings, and can mean as you suggest. But in the context of Ephesians 2:1, it seems to suggest the impartation of life. From the verse, those who were quickened were formerly dead in their trespasses and sins.

oh I see it has more than one meaning, well then in this conctext it would be recieving salvation correct?

 

[Magenta]

in our natural state it requires he draws us to him first but to say that there is not choice at all would make us robots.

Yeah I hear that no choice at all argument a lot and it's a straw man. Scripture explicitly says that the natural man will not come into the light that he is darkness itself and darkness does not comprehend the light and will not come into the light because his deeds are evil and he doesn't want them to be exposed. He is a lover of darkness and a slave to sin who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness. The error is that many ascribe to the natural man what can only be said to be true of the Spiritual man.