Who is Elihu?
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that's an incredibly weak argument you've got there for Elihu being destroyed by the appearing of God, for Elihu giving exactly the same criticism God speaks of Job.
also, you omitted some verses from your 'study'
Elijah = The LORD is God
Elihu = He is my God
perhaps God took Elihu with Him into heaven?
also, you omitted some verses from your 'study'
2 Kings 2:11
Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire [appeared] with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
note the similar names. Elijah = The LORD is God
Elihu = He is my God
perhaps God took Elihu with Him into heaven?
Yes, I left out that reference because it was the exception. The majority of the time when the whirlwind appears, however, is when it coincides with destroying the wicked.
Also, there is a difference in the names Elijah and Elihu, specifically the ending. "Jah" in Elijah is a direct reference to YAH, as in Yahweh. However "hu" in Elihu can mean various things.
Strong's Lexicon
hu or hi: he, she, it, that, this
Original Word: הוּא
Part of Speech: pronoun 3rd person singular
Transliteration: huw'
Pronunciation: hoo / hee
Phonetic Spelling: (hoo)
Definition: he, she, it, that, this
Meaning: he, self, the same, this, that, as, are
So "who" is Elihu's God exactly? The lovers of Elihu rush to make him righteous, but is he?
Also, there is a difference in the names Elijah and Elihu, specifically the ending. "Jah" in Elijah is a direct reference to YAH, as in Yahweh. However "hu" in Elihu can mean various things.
Strong's Lexicon
hu or hi: he, she, it, that, this
Original Word: הוּא
Part of Speech: pronoun 3rd person singular
Transliteration: huw'
Pronunciation: hoo / hee
Phonetic Spelling: (hoo)
Definition: he, she, it, that, this
Meaning: he, self, the same, this, that, as, are
So "who" is Elihu's God exactly? The lovers of Elihu rush to make him righteous, but is he?
yes the El is the shortened form of Elohim
Jah ((or Yah)) is the shortened form of YHVH
Elijah = El is Jah... YHVH is God
Elihu = El is He... He is God
with this similarity i think the exceptional circumstances of one with a whirlwind and the other with a whirlwind shouldn't be overlooked
the majority opinion as i understand is that Elihu is omitted from Job 42 simply because he is unimportant.
this is imo an incredibly bad exegesis given he has several chapters devoted to his words, and that his words close all the words of mankind in the book, before God speaks.
Jah ((or Yah)) is the shortened form of YHVH
Elijah = El is Jah... YHVH is God
Elihu = El is He... He is God
with this similarity i think the exceptional circumstances of one with a whirlwind and the other with a whirlwind shouldn't be overlooked
the majority opinion as i understand is that Elihu is omitted from Job 42 simply because he is unimportant.
this is imo an incredibly bad exegesis given he has several chapters devoted to his words, and that his words close all the words of mankind in the book, before God speaks.
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So your interpretation is that Elihu is taken up in the whirlwind to heaven like Elijah?
It seems the meat of the matter here is if you believe Elihu is righteous or if you believe Elihu is wicked. If he's righteous, sure, perhaps he is caught up in the whirlwind to heaven. But if he is wicked, then the other whirlwind verses posted earlier may absolutely apply to Elihu and his whereabouts when God arrives. So the issue is trying to determine if Elihu is righteous or wicked. This all ties back to the title of this thread "Who Is Elihu?" It's a great question and worth answering in light of many people who differ wildly on how they view him.
So your conclusion is that Elihu is righteous, correct? If so, can you explain how you came to this conclusion? The arguments so far are that he is not rebuked by God, he has the last words before God speaks, and he gets to speak for a long time. I am guessing there are more reasons? If so, can you share some?
Here is one problem I have with Elihu. In Job 36:4 Elihu speaks of himself as being "perfect in knowledge". Then in Job 37:16 Elihu refers to God as being "perfect in knowledge". So effectively, Elihu is equating himself with God. How does that sound to you?
If we look at Philippians 2:5-7 we read about the character and attitude of Jesus Christ. It says, "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant..."
We know Jesus was righteous, but was Elihu? Elihu's posture here is the opposite of Jesus.
Liking Elihu seems like the easy way to go when questioning his character. But with more digging, he may not be all he is cracked up to be. Above is just one example, and there are many more.
It seems the meat of the matter here is if you believe Elihu is righteous or if you believe Elihu is wicked. If he's righteous, sure, perhaps he is caught up in the whirlwind to heaven. But if he is wicked, then the other whirlwind verses posted earlier may absolutely apply to Elihu and his whereabouts when God arrives. So the issue is trying to determine if Elihu is righteous or wicked. This all ties back to the title of this thread "Who Is Elihu?" It's a great question and worth answering in light of many people who differ wildly on how they view him.
So your conclusion is that Elihu is righteous, correct? If so, can you explain how you came to this conclusion? The arguments so far are that he is not rebuked by God, he has the last words before God speaks, and he gets to speak for a long time. I am guessing there are more reasons? If so, can you share some?
Here is one problem I have with Elihu. In Job 36:4 Elihu speaks of himself as being "perfect in knowledge". Then in Job 37:16 Elihu refers to God as being "perfect in knowledge". So effectively, Elihu is equating himself with God. How does that sound to you?
If we look at Philippians 2:5-7 we read about the character and attitude of Jesus Christ. It says, "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant..."
We know Jesus was righteous, but was Elihu? Elihu's posture here is the opposite of Jesus.
Liking Elihu seems like the easy way to go when questioning his character. But with more digging, he may not be all he is cracked up to be. Above is just one example, and there are many more.
what makes you think Elihu is referring to himself in 36:4? from 36:5 through all of chapter 37 he speaks of God, saying He does not take His eye off of them, just as in 34:21 when he has previously said God sees all that all men do.
in fact you already saw the evidence of this in 37:16 - - One who is perfect in knowledge was indeed with them, that is, God is with them. note that in 38:1 God simply speaks to Job - - it doesn't say God came to them, because God was already there.
in fact you already saw the evidence of this in 37:16 - - One who is perfect in knowledge was indeed with them, that is, God is with them. note that in 38:1 God simply speaks to Job - - it doesn't say God came to them, because God was already there.
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nope.
i suggested that was equally valid as your interpretation that Elihu was destroyed by a whirlwind.
if the fact a passage exists describing a whirlwind destroying people means Elihu was destroyed, then the fact that a passage also exists describing a person being taken up to heaven with God in a whirlwind may as well mean Elihu was translated like Enoch.
i suggested that was equally valid as your interpretation that Elihu was destroyed by a whirlwind.
if the fact a passage exists describing a whirlwind destroying people means Elihu was destroyed, then the fact that a passage also exists describing a person being taken up to heaven with God in a whirlwind may as well mean Elihu was translated like Enoch.
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Elihu actually says several times he is there to justify Job, to act as a mediator for him before God, just like Christ who meditates for us and justified us.
and he introduces himself humbly, saying he has waited respectfully because Job and his friends are older and wiser, and calls them all wise men of understanding. for himself, he says it is the Spirit of God that gives men understanding - not boasting.
and he goes on for quite a bit about how men should all humble themselves before God - - just like God does when He speaks next.
and he introduces himself humbly, saying he has waited respectfully because Job and his friends are older and wiser, and calls them all wise men of understanding. for himself, he says it is the Spirit of God that gives men understanding - not boasting.
and he goes on for quite a bit about how men should all humble themselves before God - - just like God does when He speaks next.
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So you would agree that it would be a problem if Elihu were speaking of himself in 36:4?
But let's look at the context. In 36:2 he says suffer "me" a little, and "I " will show you... Then in 36:3 he says "I " will fetch "my " knowledge from afar... And in 36:4 he says "my " words shall not be false. In this context he is consistently talking about himself.
So on the heels of emphasizing his communication with Job and friends, his claim is that "one" who is perfect in knowledge is with them. He's talking about himself, and he has also already claimed that he is present with Job to speak on behalf of God to Job and that he is there in God's stead, so he claims.
Elihu is clearly speaking of himself here, and however you look at it, he is obviously exalting himself above everyone else and equating himself with God. Elihu is the embodiment of the antithesis of the character of Jesus, and this is just one of the problems with him if you look closely.
Another instance is in Job 34:2-4:
2Hear my words, O ye wise men; and give ear unto me, ye that have knowledge. 3For the ear trieth words, as the mouth tasteth meat. 4Let us choose to us judgment: let us know among ourselves what is good.
Let "us" choose to "us" judgment? Know "among themselves" what is good? Does that sound right to you? Have you noticed that Job actively prays to God all throughout this story. Job reaches outside of himself to find the answer to what is happening to him. He talks through it with his friends, but Job also consistently seeks God and prays to Him for answers.
Do you see Elihu praying to God? Do you see him seeking God at all? According to Elihu's own words, he believes in "knowing among themselves". Even if he had the answers (which I don't believe he does) how does this thinking and this attitude comport with Jesus? Even Jesus was constantly seeking God, both privately in prayer and publicly in prayer. Again, Philippians 2. Elihu displays the opposite.
But let's look at the context. In 36:2 he says suffer "me" a little, and "I " will show you... Then in 36:3 he says "I " will fetch "my " knowledge from afar... And in 36:4 he says "my " words shall not be false. In this context he is consistently talking about himself.
So on the heels of emphasizing his communication with Job and friends, his claim is that "one" who is perfect in knowledge is with them. He's talking about himself, and he has also already claimed that he is present with Job to speak on behalf of God to Job and that he is there in God's stead, so he claims.
Elihu is clearly speaking of himself here, and however you look at it, he is obviously exalting himself above everyone else and equating himself with God. Elihu is the embodiment of the antithesis of the character of Jesus, and this is just one of the problems with him if you look closely.
Another instance is in Job 34:2-4:
2Hear my words, O ye wise men; and give ear unto me, ye that have knowledge. 3For the ear trieth words, as the mouth tasteth meat. 4Let us choose to us judgment: let us know among ourselves what is good.
Let "us" choose to "us" judgment? Know "among themselves" what is good? Does that sound right to you? Have you noticed that Job actively prays to God all throughout this story. Job reaches outside of himself to find the answer to what is happening to him. He talks through it with his friends, but Job also consistently seeks God and prays to Him for answers.
Do you see Elihu praying to God? Do you see him seeking God at all? According to Elihu's own words, he believes in "knowing among themselves". Even if he had the answers (which I don't believe he does) how does this thinking and this attitude comport with Jesus? Even Jesus was constantly seeking God, both privately in prayer and publicly in prayer. Again, Philippians 2. Elihu displays the opposite.
OK but if God Himself is going to appear to Job and speak directly to him, then Elihu's "mediation" is unnecessary. Job is going to see God for himself with his own eyes and hear God directly with his own ears very soon.
Also, have you factored in that it says Elihu is "burning with anger"? This is what is driving his long-winded speeches. Anger. It says it 4 times. Can you imagine your "mediator" or counselor trying to "justify" you while they are burning with anger. How is that helpful? Job believes he is close to his death, as he explains throughout the story, and here Elihu is trying to overwhelm him with words spoken in anger. Elihu is not a wonderful counselor by any stretch.
Also, have you factored in that it says Elihu is "burning with anger"? This is what is driving his long-winded speeches. Anger. It says it 4 times. Can you imagine your "mediator" or counselor trying to "justify" you while they are burning with anger. How is that helpful? Job believes he is close to his death, as he explains throughout the story, and here Elihu is trying to overwhelm him with words spoken in anger. Elihu is not a wonderful counselor by any stretch.
Matthew 21:12-13, Mark 11:15-18
in the same way Christ was angered by the buying and selling of salvation with money, Elihu is angered by the argument of buying and selling salvation with works, and he overturn the tables.
all of the OT is testimony of Christ.
if you look for Him, He is found.
But if you lool for evil, you will also surely find it
in the same way Christ was angered by the buying and selling of salvation with money, Elihu is angered by the argument of buying and selling salvation with works, and he overturn the tables.
all of the OT is testimony of Christ.
if you look for Him, He is found.
But if you lool for evil, you will also surely find it
I have compared. Have you noticed that the way God speaks is different than Elihu? Have you noticed that most of Elihu's words to Job are in the form of harsh statements and accusations? Compare that with how God speaks to Job. God's words are full of questions to Job, not loaded with accusations. Elihu is a prosecutor and an accuser. God is being gracious. That is a huge difference.
Also, is God angry with Job? Can you show us where it says that anywhere? We know Elihu is burning with anger at Job, but is God? That is also a huge difference and significantly important.
Also, is God angry with Job? Can you show us where it says that anywhere? We know Elihu is burning with anger at Job, but is God? That is also a huge difference and significantly important.